302s and prohibition of gun ownership

[bill gray]

Took an NRA course this weekend and they started off with a lawyer speaking re PA Law. He serves as a judge in the case of persons brought in to a mental health facility against their will for a 72 observation. According to this attorney, this is called a 302 admission. During the 72 hrs, a hearing is required to decide whether or not to extend the hospitalization for several possible periods of time and these are known as 303s, 304s and 305s, depending on what period of time is decided on. This attorney stated that the initial 72 hr hold does NOT prohibit firearm possession but the others do. There is a loophole for the patient. He/she can ask for a voluntary admission instead of the 302 etc. during the hearing and before that decision is made. If that is allowed, this admission does not affect firearm rights. I often see 302s mentioned here as barring firearm possession and it would seem that this is not the case. Any thoughts to the contrary?

[KingShootersSupply]

He is wrong. Being 302'd is absolutely a prohibiting offense. A person is involuntarily committed if they are 302'd.

We are even seeing people who say they want to be voluntarily admitted who end up being 302'd.

May I ask who the attorney was? Send me a PM if you want.

ETA: See 18 USC §922(g)(4)

It shall be unlawful for any person—who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution; to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

Also see instruction 11.f on the 4473 for Adjudicated Mentally Defective

Adjudicated Mentally Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease:
(1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) Those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

Committed to a Mental Institution: A formal commitment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. The term includes commitment for mental defectiveness or mental illness. It also includes commitments for other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or a voluntary admission to a mental institution. Please also refer to Question 11.c. for the definition of a prohibited person.

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

As noted above, any 302 (non-voluntary) IS prohibitory. However, you were correct that a VOLUNTARY stay is not. Please follow up with the lawyer and correct him so bad info doesn't circulate.

Regards, Jim

[SigForLife]

A 302 is also specifically prohibiting under Pennsylvania Law, 18 Pa.C.S. 6105(c)(4) - "A person who has been adjudicated as an incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302, 303 or 304 of the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L.817, No.143), known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. This paragraph shall not apply to any proceeding under section 302 of the Mental Health Procedures Act unless the examining physician has issued a certification that inpatient care was necessary or that the person was committable."

[4thdimension]

I think it may be law that a person has to be offered a voluntary commitment (201) before they can be 302'd.

[SigForLife]

I think it may be law that a person has to be offered a voluntary commitment (201) before they can be 302'd.

Unfortunately, although the MHPA says the least restrictive means are to be utilized, the courts have NOT interpreted that to require that a voluntary commitment be offered or that even where the person agrees to be voluntarily committed that it precludes the hospital from involuntarily committing them. We need massive reform to the MHPA...

[4thdimension]

That's a shame because people really abuse the 302 process. Recently I was employed at a rehab. One of the patients there decided he didn't want to be there and tried to leave AMA. The clinical staff threatened to 302 him even though he was not required to stay in treatment. They also said they would hold his belongings for 24 hours after he left AMA. He wasn't acting dangerously. They didn't want him to leave because they didn't want to lose his money. I walked off the job because of seeing too much immoral shit like that. Adults in a rehab have every right to leave. The last place I worked at wouldn't even stop people if they were court mandated.

[KingShootersSupply]

That's a shame because people really abuse the 302 process. Recently I was employed at a rehab. One of the patients there decided he didn't want to be there and tried to leave AMA. The clinical staff threatened to 302 him even though he was not required to stay in treatment. They also said they would hold his belongings for 24 hours after he left AMA. He wasn't acting dangerously. They didn't want him to leave because they didn't want to lose his money. I walked off the job because of seeing too much immoral shit like that. Adults in a rehab have every right to leave. The last place I worked at wouldn't even stop people if they were court mandated.

And there you have it.

[4thdimension]

And there you have it.

I could go on for days about the immoral, unprofessional, crap I have seen working in the addiction treatment field. The addiction treatment industry is almost as corrupt as our judicial system. They are closely affiliated actually. Drug court is the biggest scam they have going. It is designed to trip up people so they can be violated and sent back to jail.

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

Josh, would that scenario you describe provide for sufficient legal grounds to reverse the 302 status later on? Thanks (BTW, great speech Tuesday!).

Regards, Jim

Unfortunately, although the MHPA says the least restrictive means are to be utilized, the courts have NOT interpreted that to require that a voluntary commitment be offered or that even where the person agrees to be voluntarily committed that it precludes the hospital from involuntarily committing them. We need massive reform to the MHPA...