Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    51
    Posts
    20,076
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    Default Re: 2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

    Quote Originally Posted by jljordann922 View Post
    Yes XRingShooter "Ron" is the one who originally answered me back a few months ago regarding the legality of it. He said in a nutshell it is legal for me to purchase without a PA license as long as I am really living there.....The problem is no shop will sell to me regardless because they do not wan't the hassle from what I understood. And I've tried. Basically got laughed at lol. I know he is about 3 hours away from me but would be certainly worth the drive if he was ok with it. Tried messaging him on the forum but couldnt get access to do so. So wanted to know if there are more FFL's in the area, say Poconos, that would sell granted all the paperwork of residency is there.
    XRingShooter is one of probably a handful of FFL's that really knows the law.

    If I were you, I would private message him, asking what all that he needs to prove that you do in fact reside in PA on weekends and that you would not attempt to violate NY law. Then deal with him. I'm sure he'll want to see your property tax slip, utility bills, receipts(groceries, etc) of some sort to businesses local to your PA home, etc, etc.

    A 3 hr drive to him, an hour on site, then 3 hr drive back to your PA home will be less time than what you'll probably spend on the phone or making local trips.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Rheems, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Posts
    727
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    21474843

    Default Re: 2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    You can buy a rifle/shotgun for your PA home without issue.

    Handguns, well, you'll have to prove to a knowledgeable PA FFL that you do in fact reside at your PA home during the weekends.


    There is no such thing as "dual residency" in the USA, except for college students, certain elected officials to Washington DC, and very limited cases for military personnel. You reside where you are for the given moment when you are in fact living there. The problem of which is that your ID(drivers license/state ID) is generally prima facie evidence of your residence, which doesn't take into account possible secondary residences.

    A FFL has to follow federal law that limits his/her ability to only transfer handguns and "other firearms" to only residents of that state. Which then puts the burden upon you to prove you are in fact a resident at that very moment. Then, if the FFL believes you will violate another state's laws by taking said firearm to that other state - the FFL is again tasked with denying the transfer.


    So, for you to buy a handgun in PA as a primary resident of NY(because your ID says such), but a secondary resident of PA:

    1. You must 1st find a knowledgeable FFL
    2. You must bring proof to that FFL that you do in fact reside in PA on weekends, during which time you would purchase said handgun
    3. You must have a reasonable argument that you would not attempt to violate the other state's laws
    When I talked to a gun lawyer, he def indicated that the ATF recognizes dual residency. Not in the sense of tax paying residency, but strictly for ATF related stuff. That is what I meant by dual residency.
    Una Salus Victis Nullam Sperare Salutem

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    17
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    Default Re: 2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    XRingShooter is one of probably a handful of FFL's that really knows the law.

    If I were you, I would private message him, asking what all that he needs to prove that you do in fact reside in PA on weekends and that you would not attempt to violate NY law. Then deal with him. I'm sure he'll want to see your property tax slip, utility bills, receipts(groceries, etc) of some sort to businesses local to your PA home, etc, etc.

    A 3 hr drive to him, an hour on site, then 3 hr drive back to your PA home will be less time than what you'll probably spend on the phone or making local trips.
    Thanks for the responses....I sent him a message so will go straight to the source and see what can be done. I can easily provide all of my receipts or at least my CC transactions while I am there. In fact Google Maps stores all of my GPS locations on my phone so that is an easy way to tell I am in PA as well.
    Last edited by jljordann922; November 27th, 2018 at 11:17 AM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    North of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
    Posts
    162
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    1370101

    Default Re: 2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

    I believe this should not be a difficult if you own property in PA and have a way to show ownership such as tax bill. I would take the original bill, not a copy just to alleviate any question from a local FFL. Fill out the 4473 and use the PA address that matches your name and tax bill on the form. Your NY license is fine to show identification and proof you are you!

    IMNAL but believe I am 100% correct.
    If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Bechtelsville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    917
    Rep Power
    20052528

    Default Re: 2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

    The ATF 4473 addresses individuals who are residents of multiple states in several places in the instructions, with the most direct being in the instructions relation to Question 18.b. (page 5 of the 4473) - https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-for...cord-revisions. See also, https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what...sferee-firearm and https://www.atf.gov/file/55496/download.
    Joshua Prince, Esq. - Firearms Industry Consulting Group - www.PaFirearmsLawyer.com

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    17
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    0

    Default Re: 2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

    I'm going to go with the belief that it is legal and possible to do as an owner of property in PA AND that I live their for a reasonable amount of time per week. Even with a NY license. The problem lies with finding a FFL that will take the time to guide me through it and make it happen.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    New Tripoli, Pennsylvania
    (Lehigh County)
    Posts
    2,345
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    21474845

    Default Re: 2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

    Quote Originally Posted by jljordann922 View Post
    I'm going to go with the belief that it is legal and possible to do as an owner of property in PA AND that I live their for a reasonable amount of time per week. Even with a NY license. The problem lies with finding a FFL that will take the time to guide me through it and make it happen.
    What's the location or county of your PA home reside in I'm sure there's one FFL willing to help .

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Upper Darby, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,237
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    21474852

    Default Re: 2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

    Quote Originally Posted by :-) View Post
    It would be a lot easier if states weren't allowed to make their own gun laws.
    It would be a lot easier if the only gun law was "shall not be infringed."

    Just sayin'...

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Franklin, Pennsylvania
    (Venango County)
    Posts
    3,920
    Rep Power
    15878968

    Default Re: 2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

    Quote Originally Posted by SigForLife View Post
    The ATF 4473 addresses individuals who are residents of multiple states in several places in the instructions, with the most direct being in the instructions relation to Question 18.b. (page 5 of the 4473) - https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-for...cord-revisions. See also, https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what...sferee-firearm and https://www.atf.gov/file/55496/download.
    Tell the FFL to follow the form instructions. Talk with the person who "owns" the FFL itself. Bring required documents for proof. If still resistant, ask them to inquire with their FFL Guard.
    It is you. You have all the weapons that you need. Now fight. --Sucker Punch

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,607
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    21474859

    Default Re: 2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

    Many PA FFL's do not understand the "dual state resident" applicability to buying firearms in PA. I deal with several buyers from NY and several more from other states. It is perfectly legal for a person who owns a home and property in PA to purchase a handgun for use while living in PA, even if the handgun is "illegal" in their other state of residence. The person buying the handgun while staying in PA must be cognizant of the fact that it CANNOT leave PA UNLESS they get the ok from their other state of residence. The people I deal with all leave the "PA" guns in PA. I have one NY/PA resident that I just transferred a submachine gun to. All perfectly legal according to PA and the NFA Division of the BATFE.

    What is required to buy a gun while staying in PA is to work with a PA FFL who knows the law, and is willing to work with the buyer. The PSP wants the FFL to attach a copy of the buyers real estate taxes (paid) to the 4473 and the SP4-113 so it can be proven that the are legal property owners in PA. The FFL will have to talk to a PICS operator when the BGC is being done so that the PSP knows the situation (a handgun to a person with an out of state drivers license). I have never had any problems with the PICS operators doing one of these types of transfers. All of my customers also have heir LTCF from the county where their property is located.

    As for the "proving" you reside in your PA home during the time you buying the firearm, that's impossible to do. How does someone prove that - have the FFL go to the home and see the refrigerator is full and the heat is turned on????

    I take the word of the buyer, why else would they be in my shop on a Saturday to pick up a firearm they ordered and I have stored for anywhere up to several months. If they are not playing by the rules he will ultimately pay the price.

    It's really not a big deal, the PSP sees this regularly and doesn't bat an eye.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

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