Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Do Pennsylvania State Police have database of CCW holders for traffic stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    So you are saying that people who have an LTCF can never run afoul of the law ?
    No, but the probability of a person with a valid LTCF of committing a crime is much lower than someone without. I am sure you know recidivism is a HUGE problem. Many if not most criminals have prior records. Wouldn't it be a little better dealing with someone you know doesn't have a past criminal history during a traffic stop or similar?

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Do Pennsylvania State Police have database of CCW holders for traffic stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot321 View Post
    Interesting that police get nervous when they encounter someone that has passed an extensive background check, and has a squeaky clean record.
    Police officers pass an extensive background check, a physical and psych test also, then receive firearms training and still manage to F*%# up.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Do Pennsylvania State Police have database of CCW holders for traffic stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    Police officers pass an extensive background check, a physical and psych test also, then receive firearms training and still manage to F*%# up.
    More than convicted felons or people with criminal backgrounds?

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Do Pennsylvania State Police have database of CCW holders for traffic stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot321 View Post
    No, but the probability of a person with a valid LTCF of committing a crime is much lower than someone without. I am sure you know recidivism is a HUGE problem. Many if not most criminals have prior records. Wouldn't it be a little better dealing with someone you know doesn't have a past criminal history during a traffic stop or similar?
    I agree with you that for the most part LTCF holders are on the correct side of the law.

    However I don't put absolute trust in a little piece of paper to confirm that the holder is not ever going to go postal.

    How many of the recent mass shootings, domestic ambushes or terrorist style incidents have been committed by someone with a "clean" record ?

    To be clear, I am not throwing LTCF holders under the bus, I just don't like using the words- all, always, never, etc.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Do Pennsylvania State Police have database of CCW holders for traffic stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    I agree with you that for the most part LTCF holders are on the correct side of the law.

    However I don't put absolute trust in a little piece of paper to confirm that the holder is not ever going to go postal.

    How many of the recent mass shootings, domestic ambushes or terrorist style incidents have been committed by someone with a "clean" record ?

    To be clear, I am not throwing LTCF holders under the bus, I just don't like using the words- all, always, never, etc.
    Totally agree, and I totally understand why you'd be cautious. However, and maybe I am wrong, but it seems once the officer knows you have an LTCF they are even more wary as you have a probability of having a gun. I had a traffic stop recently, and the officer said he "saw" my LTCF which I keep behind my license in my wallet. He asked if I had a gun. I told him no, which was the truth as I don't always carry.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Do Pennsylvania State Police have database of CCW holders for traffic stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot321 View Post
    More than convicted felons or people with criminal backgrounds?
    That answer depends on who you ask. I am sure Deanimator would have a different answer than me.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Do Pennsylvania State Police have database of CCW holders for traffic stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot321 View Post
    Totally agree, and I totally understand why you'd be cautious. However, and maybe I am wrong, but it seems once the officer knows you have an LTCF they are even more wary as you have a probability of having a gun. I had a traffic stop recently, and the officer said he "saw" my LTCF which I keep behind my license in my wallet. He asked if I had a gun. I told him no, which was the truth as I don't always carry.
    The problem is you don't know how the officer is going to react. Are they going to overreact, disarm you, handcuff you and put you in the back of the police car or are they going to say "just keep your gun where it is and I'll do the same and you will be on your way in a few minutes". I'll admit that the former is a major problem.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Do Pennsylvania State Police have database of CCW holders for traffic stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    The problem is you don't know how the officer is going to react. Are they going to overreact, disarm you, handcuff you and put you in the back of the police car or are they going to say "just keep your gun where it is and I'll do the same and you will be on your way in a few minutes". I'll admit that the former is a major problem.
    Any advice from your side of the badge on how to avoid the former? I know you don't (can't possibly) speak for all, but if you have enough dealings with a broad enough variety of personnel you might have suggestions.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Do Pennsylvania State Police have database of CCW holders for traffic stops.

    Our twp had an officer who got into one gun fight too many. Having previously reported being shot at by a subject who evaded capture on three occasions, the fourth time he was actually shot. On the right side, slightly rear, just under the edge of his vest.

    Hospitalized for a contact wound which did not fit his description of the shooting (distance alleged), he ultimately fessed up and was allowed to resign. He was very lucky. He thought he was shooting into his vest. All the recruiting investigations and psych testing failed to reveal his desire to be a hero.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Do Pennsylvania State Police have database of CCW holders for traffic stops.

    The real PIA is when states like Maryland use that flashing red text, that the driver has a LTCF, as probable cause to search the vehicle.. there are 2 lawsuits pending, both are from FL residents, both stopped on I-95, neither had a firearm with them and told LEO they had no firearms with them.. didn't matter
    Retired US Army
    NRA Life Member, GOA, USCCA
    "Artificial intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity"

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