Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #81
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Greetings,

    WarPig, no disrespect, but I believe you may be mistaken on a few of your points. First off, FBI is the investigative arm for tracking ITAR compliance and such. ICE may become involved when there is actually an import/export investigation. However, though the initial intent of ITAR was indeed import/export control, the way the regulations were written (and more so now with the latest "guidelines"), actual import/export is more or less irrelevant to the required compliance or the lack thereof. If you are (or are considered) a manufacturer of a defense article on the USML, you must comply with an entire set of regulations beyond the registration and fee. The initial fee of $2250 is just the beginning of the problems that will face gun smiths and machine shops doing firearm work. Much more serious are the record keeping/systems/personnel/facility/security requirements.

    If anyone is seriously interested in all the details, I'd be glad to post links to the rules (crazy and Kafka'esque to the extreme). For example, any time you have a "question" regarding compliance, there is a specific format required to obtaining the answer. The number of times one of these "investigations" is requested ups the cost beyond that initial fee.

    Try to keep in mind these regulations were intended for complex defense systems that were generally developed/manufactured by huge companies like Boeing, General Dynamics, etc.. None of the systems required to be in place logically "scale down" to that of the general gun smith or machine shop. These defense contracting firms have in house experts whos' only job is to deal with ITAR. For the next step down in size/complexity of the operation, those companies hire on consulting firms who specialize in these esoteric regulations. These consultants aren't even interested in dealing with the issues that could come up regarding traditional gun smith activities.

    I could write much more and would be glad to if there is any interest (I've complied and read several hundred pages of details on this issue and am really only still at the surface). At this point, please consider that holding gun smiths to the same ITAR standards as General Dynamics is sort of like rabbit hunting with an ICBM (actually, one of the technologies ITAR was intended to deal with). There are also quite a few other serious issues in how the new guideline implementation was actually not done per US law and more reasons it should NOT apply to gun smiths.

    As you correctly note, there was no official presidential ExOrder, but as with the other regulatory agencies affecting our interests (ATF, EPA, Commerce, etc.), I believe there was an "off the record" push demanding each of them using the full powers available to harass and frighten the industry. Due to 0bamas inability to get Congress to pass legislation in support of his goals, he's taken the back door approach and sent the dogs of war to do the dirty work.

    Regards, Jim



    Quote Originally Posted by WarPig1976 View Post
    It turns out ICE is the muscle for ITAR enforcement and we all know they're doing a bang up job.
    Beyond that from 2005 to 2015 a total of 60 visits were conducted by DDTC for compliance, so 6 a year give or take. It's on their web site, easy to find. That was, I sure to the big boys in the defense industry.
    Further more unless your importing or exporting product DDTC doesn't even know you exist. They have NO investigative authority beyond registered participates. Nobody is raiding Billy Bob's Gun and Rod if Billy gives a big Fuck You and your fee to Uncle Sam.

    Let me add that this wasn't an "Executive order". It isn't listed on the White House page of said royal dictates. We know it was, but from behind closed doors. Like I said before,,,,,,All smoke and mirrors.

  2. #82
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    I'm sorry, but where was I wrong? It seems you repeated what I said with slightly different wording.
    And please don't take my response as coming at you, we're talking.

  3. #83
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Greetings,

    Ya know, reading back what both of us wrote, your correct, with this possible exception:

    "Further more unless your importing or exporting product DDTC doesn't even know you exist. They have NO investigative authority beyond registered participates. Nobody is raiding Billy Bob's Gun and Rod if Billy gives a big Fuck You and your fee to Uncle Sam."

    My point is they may indeed give a shit, depending on how hard the push from above comes (regardless of whether you're import/export of not; just manufacturing). The game has been re-set with new goal lines and what happens next depends on quite a few moving parts (proposed legislation, the letters from the groups of House Reps and Senators and of course the election). I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some sting operations occurred just so the current administration can get a last minute jab in. Purely speculative on my part.


    Otherwise, yes we're on the same page, I was thinking a bit sideways. My apologies, we're all good!

    Regards, Jim


    Quote Originally Posted by WarPig1976 View Post
    I'm sorry, but where was I wrong? It seems you repeated what I said with slightly different wording.
    And please don't take my response as coming at you, we're talking.

  4. #84
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by philadelphia patriot View Post
    If Trump gets elected, his first executive order should be to cancel out all executive orders imposed by Obama.
    If he does this, my vote for him will have been justified.

  5. #85
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Are executive orders carried over to the new administration, or are they nullified after the term of the president is exhausted?

  6. #86
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by c45man View Post
    Are executive orders carried over to the new administration, or are they nullified after the term of the president is exhausted?
    I believe they carry over, but the incoming president can easily nullify them.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by c45man View Post
    Are executive orders carried over to the new administration, or are they nullified after the term of the president is exhausted?
    They're in effect until cancelled (by the same or a future president), unless they are written with a specific expiry date.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by c45man View Post
    Are executive orders carried over to the new administration, or are they nullified after the term of the president is exhausted?
    The George H Bush importation ban is still in effect.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleclaw View Post
    The George H Bush importation ban is still in effect.
    Odumbass wouldn't have over turned this, it goes with the agenda.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Qtrborecrazy View Post
    Odumbass wouldn't have over turned this, it goes with the agenda.
    My point was to answer c45man question if an EO remains in effect after the originating president leaves office. I gave an example of an EO that was still in effect since Bush #1. I have/had no confidence that Obama was ever going to reverse this EO. I'm surprised that Obama didn't strengthen it or at least try to. This executive order is really the backbone of the 'assault weapons ban' movement.

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