new executive order on gun control

[Steeltrap]

I'm not an attorney, and this is not intended to be legal advice. I use to work with attorneys prior to my retirement so some of that "stuff" rubbed off on me. But again, this is not meant to be any legal advice.

But....just thinking out loud.....It appears that the "Order", and for simplicity sake, I'll refer to it as "The Order" is targeting the small gunshop and gunsmith. Now, as a thought to this I just wonder if it would be possible for those small shops to get together and form an LLC (Limited Liability Company), and for discussion purposes, let's call it "Gun Services Contractor LLC." Now, this LLC's sole purpose is to be the "Entity" that legally does the work on any firearm that needs any type of gunsmithing done on it. Each member of "Gun Services Contractor LLC." has a "License Contract" with "Gun Services Contractor LLC."

Now, when Customer A comes into a shop that is a member of the LLC, on the Shop's billing it states "Licensed Contractor of "Gun Services Contractor LLC", and the "Gun Services Contractor LLC" is the entity who pays the annual $2300 fee. Why? Because the LLC is considered the "entity" doing the work. It just happens that the LLC is sub-contracting the work out to one of it's members.

So, Joe customer comes into Gunshop A to have a scope mounted on his rifle. Gunshop A is a member of "Gun Services Contractor LLC" and it says this right on Gunshop A's invoices. The firearm has the scope installed, and is invoiced under "Gunshop A, a licensed affiliate of Gun Services Contractor LLC. Gunshop A does all of it's bookkeeping the same way it's always done it, reports it's sales tax and everything else as it's always done. The only difference is, it's a "Licensed affiliate" of "Gun Services Contractor LLC."

So, all of the small shops contribute....I don't know....let's say $250 to this LLC. And each shop owe's 1 share in said LLC. Let's assume for discussion purposes that we get 100 shops to be members. So, the LLC now has $25,000 to start with and that is more than enough to pay for Legal cost of formation, and annual tax filings plus annual legal upkeep of documents. Perhaps the "annual fee" can be adjusted up or down. (Again....I'm just thinking out loud).

Seems complex? Maybe yes....maybe no. But, a Legal opinion would be needed as to if it would work. And a $250 fee every two or three years is a lot less than an annual $2300 fee. And what is wrong with using our laws to thumb our noses at Obama?

Again, not legal advice. Just thinking out loud.

[c45man]

I'm not an attorney, and this is not intended to be legal advice. I use to work with attorneys prior to my retirement so some of that "stuff" rubbed off on me. But again, this is not meant to be any legal advice.

But....just thinking out loud.....It appears that the "Order", and for simplicity sake, I'll refer to it as "The Order" is targeting the small gunshop and gunsmith. Now, as a thought to this I just wonder if it would be possible for those small shops to get together and form an LLC (Limited Liability Company), and for discussion purposes, let's call it "Gun Services Contractor LLC." Now, this LLC's sole purpose is to be the "Entity" that legally does the work on any firearm that needs any type of gunsmithing done on it. Each member of "Gun Services Contractor LLC." has a "License Contract" with "Gun Services Contractor LLC."

Now, when Customer A comes into a shop that is a member of the LLC, on the Shop's billing it states "Licensed Contractor of "Gun Services Contractor LLC", and the "Gun Services Contractor LLC" is the entity who pays the annual $2300 fee. Why? Because the LLC is considered the "entity" doing the work. It just happens that the LLC is sub-contracting the work out to one of it's members.

So, Joe customer comes into Gunshop A to have a scope mounted on his rifle. Gunshop A is a member of "Gun Services Contractor LLC" and it says this right on Gunshop A's invoices. The firearm has the scope installed, and is invoiced under "Gunshop A, a licensed affiliate of Gun Services Contractor LLC. Gunshop A does all of it's bookkeeping the same way it's always done it, reports it's sales tax and everything else as it's always done. The only difference is, it's a "Licensed affiliate" of "Gun Services Contractor LLC."

So, all of the small shops contribute....I don't know....let's say $250 to this LLC. And each shop owe's 1 share in said LLC. Let's assume for discussion purposes that we get 100 shops to be members. So, the LLC now has $25,000 to start with and that is more than enough to pay for Legal cost of formation, and annual tax filings plus annual legal upkeep of documents. Perhaps the "annual fee" can be adjusted up or down. (Again....I'm just thinking out loud).

Seems complex? Maybe yes....maybe no. But, a Legal opinion would be needed as to if it would work. And a $250 fee every two or three years is a lot less than an annual $2300 fee. And what is wrong with using our laws to thumb our noses at Obama?

Again, not legal advice. Just thinking out loud.

Small shops get together? Most shops that even offer gunsmith services are outsourced. Shops that have in house gunsmith will pay the 2300 bucks and adjust the fees. Small independent shops can't agree to form buyer groups much less an LLC. As I said in a previous post, liability insurance for gun shops make the 2300 bucks look pale. Especially indoor ranges.

[Steeltrap]

Small shops get together? Most shops that even offer gunsmith services are outsourced. Shops that have in house gunsmith will pay the 2300 bucks and adjust the fees. Small independent shops can't agree to form buyer groups much less an LLC. As I said in a previous post, liability insurance for gun shops make the 2300 bucks look pale. Especially indoor ranges.

Well.....I suppose if "everyone" outsources, then the $2,300 for the meager few shops in Pa. that actually do the work, will be a speck of pepper on the big plate of life. When the Gunsmith shuts off the engine of his Lincoln after lunching at the Club, he will instruct his secretary to park it in the heated\cooled garage.

[free]

The FBI, The ATF, The State Department, Who? I think they realize they have other priorities to spend there budgets on.

Defending the country from external threats does not appear to be the priority. That just leaves internal threats - or those perceived as one.

[Sgt.K]

I haven't seen this question asked yet in this thread:

How does this effect 80% lowers?

[Bang]

I'll take a stab at it ^^^^

The edict clearly uses the term "in the business of". If you are doing things for your own amazement, you are not in the business of.

[WarPig1976]

Defending the country from external threats does not appear to be the priority. That just leaves internal threats - or those perceived as one.

It turns out ICE is the muscle for ITAR enforcement and we all know they're doing a bang up job.
Beyond that from 2005 to 2015 a total of 60 visits were conducted by DDTC for compliance, so 6 a year give or take. It's on their web site, easy to find. That was, I sure to the big boys in the defense industry.
Further more unless your importing or exporting product DDTC doesn't even know you exist. They have NO investigative authority beyond registered participates. Nobody is raiding Billy Bob's Gun and Rod if Billy gives a big Fuck You and your fee to Uncle Sam.

Let me add that this wasn't an "Executive order". It isn't listed on the White House page of said royal dictates. We know it was, but from behind closed doors. Like I said before,,,,,,All smoke and mirrors.

[Sgt.K]

The edict clearly uses the term "in the business of".

Yeah, not enough sleep the last few nights.

Nothing to see here. Carry on...

[USMC3531]

I'm not an attorney, and this is not intended to be legal advice. I use to work with attorneys prior to my retirement so some of that "stuff" rubbed off on me. But again, this is not meant to be any legal advice.

But....just thinking out loud.....It appears that the "Order", and for simplicity sake, I'll refer to it as "The Order" is targeting the small gunshop and gunsmith. Now, as a thought to this I just wonder if it would be possible for those small shops to get together and form an LLC (Limited Liability Company), and for discussion purposes, let's call it "Gun Services Contractor LLC." Now, this LLC's sole purpose is to be the "Entity" that legally does the work on any firearm that needs any type of gunsmithing done on it. Each member of "Gun Services Contractor LLC." has a "License Contract" with "Gun Services Contractor LLC."

Now, when Customer A comes into a shop that is a member of the LLC, on the Shop's billing it states "Licensed Contractor of "Gun Services Contractor LLC", and the "Gun Services Contractor LLC" is the entity who pays the annual $2300 fee. Why? Because the LLC is considered the "entity" doing the work. It just happens that the LLC is sub-contracting the work out to one of it's members.

So, Joe customer comes into Gunshop A to have a scope mounted on his rifle. Gunshop A is a member of "Gun Services Contractor LLC" and it says this right on Gunshop A's invoices. The firearm has the scope installed, and is invoiced under "Gunshop A, a licensed affiliate of Gun Services Contractor LLC. Gunshop A does all of it's bookkeeping the same way it's always done it, reports it's sales tax and everything else as it's always done. The only difference is, it's a "Licensed affiliate" of "Gun Services Contractor LLC."

So, all of the small shops contribute....I don't know....let's say $250 to this LLC. And each shop owe's 1 share in said LLC. Let's assume for discussion purposes that we get 100 shops to be members. So, the LLC now has $25,000 to start with and that is more than enough to pay for Legal cost of formation, and annual tax filings plus annual legal upkeep of documents. Perhaps the "annual fee" can be adjusted up or down. (Again....I'm just thinking out loud).

Seems complex? Maybe yes....maybe no. But, a Legal opinion would be needed as to if it would work. And a $250 fee every two or three years is a lot less than an annual $2300 fee. And what is wrong with using our laws to thumb our noses at Obama?

Again, not legal advice. Just thinking out loud.

the problem I believe exists with this theory is all work would have to be done at the listed address of the llc.

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

An update from NRA-ILA on this issue that I wanted to pass on, PLEASE contact your US House Reps!

"Legislation Introduced to Protect American Gunsmiths From Reckless State Department “Guidance”


On Wednesday, House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.) and Sen. Steve Daines (R-Mont.) introduced the Export Control Reform Act of 2016. The bill was prompted by the State Department’s recent move to redefine thousands of ordinary gunsmiths as “firearm manufacturers” subject to its oversight and liable for annual fees of $2,250, as well as mandatory record keeping and other bureaucratic red tape. Left unchecked, the State Department’s move would likely force untold numbers of small businesses to cease operation."

Regards, Jim