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July 29th, 2016, 06:02 PM #41
Re: new executive order on gun control
Another hidden tax to help build the bloated government ranks.
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July 29th, 2016, 08:49 PM #42Grand Member
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Re: new executive order on gun control
I wish it was that simple Daycrawler. The vast majority of gunsmiths are basic FFL dealers. The license is not difficult to obtain once zoning is addressed and is inexpensive compared to a manufacturers license which is what Barrett Arms, smith and Wesson Inc. and Glock USA possesses. That is if my understanding of a manufacturing license is accurate. The cost, investigation prior to issuance, and the insurance requirements is cost prohibitive for even a gun store/ gun smith that has sales for additional income. Your independent garage or basement smith will cease to exist. Most of them don't make that much money considering the skill and training required for such a complex trade. The non gun store smiths that I have known for the fifty years I have in the firearms hobby have wives with good jobs, or have other jobs to supplement their income. This arrogant and disgusting excuse for a president is a mere preview of the skank waiting in the wings of the democratic party and such executive orders, as illegal as they may be, will be confirmed by our activist judicial system.
The way the democratic party has a choke hold on the white house, it may be some time before such executive orders are rescinded. And as far as the congress is concerned, their role in this entire matter is compromised to the degree that one has to wonder what use they have outside of collecting a paycheck and a 6 digit a year pension.
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August 1st, 2016, 11:49 AM #43
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August 1st, 2016, 12:33 PM #44Grand Member
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Re: new executive order on gun control
These guys get it. This will drive the PT/small volume guys out of business. If you generate $5k/year PT, you're not going to pay half of that revenue to stay in business. That's the democrat way of helping small businesses and spur economic growth.
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August 1st, 2016, 02:43 PM #45
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August 1st, 2016, 04:02 PM #46Grand Member
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Re: new executive order on gun control
If this power pig in the white house could use such twisted logic and reasoning around some obscure interpretation of a certain act having nothing to do with licensed gunsmiths and the myriad of laws they have to work under, other E.O.s could be established to consider certain semi autos as requiring a federal stamp and permit simply over the administration's invented reason. This latest order will get challenged and congressional heat may come down from even his own political party. Many are running to either challenge republicans or seek reelection. This matter is not over.
I spoke to a smith of over 40 years and he believes that this order is in response to individuals going to machinists, having nothing to do with gunsmiths, and paying a few hundred dollars for use of his machining devices to mill a billet into a receiver for a AR or AK. The machinist in question will do the setting and the customer will hit the power button. Once this process is over, parts can be ordered to complete the firearm. One could make his or her own firearm with no numbers as long as the item is never sold. I am not a machinist and do not understand the process, but it has been done according to this individual who I have found to be quite credible over the years. Ironically, the practice described can continue being the machinist is not a licensed FFL/Gunsmith.Last edited by c45man; August 1st, 2016 at 04:07 PM.
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August 1st, 2016, 04:15 PM #47
Re: new executive order on gun control
Yes, they're called build parties. A shop invites a group of people with 80% lowers or AK flats and parts kits to use his tools and knowledge to safely complete a rifle. The knowledgable individual oversees the group build or complete their rifles with the use of his tools.
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August 1st, 2016, 04:27 PM #48
Re: new executive order on gun control
I know a damned good man, a good gunsmith, police instructor, lot of long-established credentials who is now out of business. He was nearing giving up. This is the final nail. He is done.
It would seem to me that the major manufacturers will be next. Seems linear logic.
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August 1st, 2016, 05:42 PM #49Grand Member
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Re: new executive order on gun control
I am a machinist and that kind of build party where all the owner of the lower does is push a button on a CNC machine is sketchy. Training someone to actually perform the required tasks and using borrowed tools is another story. There's a big difference between the two. I don't know of anyone specifically, and not trying to just spread Internet he said/he said rumors, but I have seen posts on other forums where the push button lower machining created problems for some folks, particularly in CA (I know, CA). That particular type of 'build party' is probably illegal. Do people do it? I'm sure. But I wouldn't risk it.
Here's an analogy. You give a friend a hammer and a saw. He has wood and nails. You walk him through every step to build a wall. You advise, but he does all the work. OTOH, you build the wall, and leave one nail partially nailed in. Then your friend hammers that nail in. Who built the wall in each case?
At this time the ITAR registration fee is not prohibitive to larger manufacturers. Are the some level FFL's that already pay that fee? But you're right. It's a step. If you can't outlaw something, tax it into extinction.Last edited by esh21167; August 1st, 2016 at 05:46 PM.
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August 1st, 2016, 07:36 PM #50Grand Member
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Re: new executive order on gun control
After some thought on the matter at hand I considered that a busy fulltime gunsmith will probably cough up the 2300 bucks for the permit. Such Smith would probably pay about as much in liability insurance. For the small scale smith's and as I said earlier, they will continue to do work for close customers and will, like Obama, fly under the radar. The power pig got his EO, and enforcing it is another matter, eve if such survives appeal.
The firearm industry has always been in creative in adjusting to the bastards that hate them so much. Why? Somebody has always had money in their pocket to make the bother profitable.Last edited by c45man; August 1st, 2016 at 08:11 PM.
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