Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Another hidden tax to help build the bloated government ranks.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    I guess the end result of this will be higher prices passed onto the consumer......
    I wish it was that simple Daycrawler. The vast majority of gunsmiths are basic FFL dealers. The license is not difficult to obtain once zoning is addressed and is inexpensive compared to a manufacturers license which is what Barrett Arms, smith and Wesson Inc. and Glock USA possesses. That is if my understanding of a manufacturing license is accurate. The cost, investigation prior to issuance, and the insurance requirements is cost prohibitive for even a gun store/ gun smith that has sales for additional income. Your independent garage or basement smith will cease to exist. Most of them don't make that much money considering the skill and training required for such a complex trade. The non gun store smiths that I have known for the fifty years I have in the firearms hobby have wives with good jobs, or have other jobs to supplement their income. This arrogant and disgusting excuse for a president is a mere preview of the skank waiting in the wings of the democratic party and such executive orders, as illegal as they may be, will be confirmed by our activist judicial system.

    The way the democratic party has a choke hold on the white house, it may be some time before such executive orders are rescinded. And as far as the congress is concerned, their role in this entire matter is compromised to the degree that one has to wonder what use they have outside of collecting a paycheck and a 6 digit a year pension.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by TSimonetti View Post
    Politics is chess, not checkers. I suspect he will hold that option in his back pocket in the beginning. His first priority will be getting a new SCOTUS judge nominated and approved and he definitely won't get any cooperation from Dems and I suspect even quite a few of the notoriously liberal Repubs if he puts a flamethrower to all of Obama's "gun safety" EO's right off the bat.

    I think in the grand scheme of things, Trump is certainly chomping at the bit to rescind some of Obama's immigration EO's right away, but is far less enthusiastic over axing the gun control EO's.
    That's not what he has said. His son is a collector.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by unclejumbo View Post
    As an 01 FFL holder, I've been allowed to put together an AR-15 or two a year without penalty. I was told by the inspector that cranking out dozens a year would mean I need a manufacturers license but a couple was fine. This new rule is just one more way to break the back of small FFL holders. I'll be in violation if I so much as buy an upper and a lower separately and I mate them. I had a Sako rifle that I put a new extractor in because the old one was inexplicably missing. That would be a violation.

    The first violation would be easy to catch, the 2nd harder. The question becomes at what point does the fear of prosecution drive me and others like me out of business. You know we won't have the law generously read and our intent considered to determine whether we should be prosecuted. We'll be bent over and be violated by the full force of the US government.

    They are pinching from all sides and it will only get worse if Clinton is elected. Say what you want about Trump but, at worst, he doesn't give a shit about guns which means that he's not going to be doing this petty bullshit. Meanwhile, there are people here that either refuse to vote for him or will actually vote for Hillary. If you're refusing to vote for Trump, I'm disappointed. If you're voting for Hillary, you are my enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by c45man View Post
    I wish it was that simple Daycrawler. The vast majority of gunsmiths are basic FFL dealers. The license is not difficult to obtain once zoning is addressed and is inexpensive compared to a manufacturers license which is what Barrett Arms, smith and Wesson Inc. and Glock USA possesses. That is if my understanding of a manufacturing license is accurate. The cost, investigation prior to issuance, and the insurance requirements is cost prohibitive for even a gun store/ gun smith that has sales for additional income. Your independent garage or basement smith will cease to exist. Most of them don't make that much money considering the skill and training required for such a complex trade. The non gun store smiths that I have known for the fifty years I have in the firearms hobby have wives with good jobs, or have other jobs to supplement their income. This arrogant and disgusting excuse for a president is a mere preview of the skank waiting in the wings of the democratic party and such executive orders, as illegal as they may be, will be confirmed by our activist judicial system.

    The way the democratic party has a choke hold on the white house, it may be some time before such executive orders are rescinded. And as far as the congress is concerned, their role in this entire matter is compromised to the degree that one has to wonder what use they have outside of collecting a paycheck and a 6 digit a year pension.
    These guys get it. This will drive the PT/small volume guys out of business. If you generate $5k/year PT, you're not going to pay half of that revenue to stay in business. That's the democrat way of helping small businesses and spur economic growth.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by esh21167 View Post
    This will drive the PT/small volume guys out of business. If you generate $5k/year PT, you're not going to pay half of that revenue to stay in business.
    I wonder how many pay Taxes on that $5k let alone are going to comply with this titty twister.

    How many registered to be a "dealer" from his last dictate? Anyone here?

  6. #46
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    If this power pig in the white house could use such twisted logic and reasoning around some obscure interpretation of a certain act having nothing to do with licensed gunsmiths and the myriad of laws they have to work under, other E.O.s could be established to consider certain semi autos as requiring a federal stamp and permit simply over the administration's invented reason. This latest order will get challenged and congressional heat may come down from even his own political party. Many are running to either challenge republicans or seek reelection. This matter is not over.

    I spoke to a smith of over 40 years and he believes that this order is in response to individuals going to machinists, having nothing to do with gunsmiths, and paying a few hundred dollars for use of his machining devices to mill a billet into a receiver for a AR or AK. The machinist in question will do the setting and the customer will hit the power button. Once this process is over, parts can be ordered to complete the firearm. One could make his or her own firearm with no numbers as long as the item is never sold. I am not a machinist and do not understand the process, but it has been done according to this individual who I have found to be quite credible over the years. Ironically, the practice described can continue being the machinist is not a licensed FFL/Gunsmith.
    Last edited by c45man; August 1st, 2016 at 04:07 PM.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Yes, they're called build parties. A shop invites a group of people with 80% lowers or AK flats and parts kits to use his tools and knowledge to safely complete a rifle. The knowledgable individual oversees the group build or complete their rifles with the use of his tools.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    I know a damned good man, a good gunsmith, police instructor, lot of long-established credentials who is now out of business. He was nearing giving up. This is the final nail. He is done.

    It would seem to me that the major manufacturers will be next. Seems linear logic.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by c45man View Post
    I spoke to a smith of over 40 years and he believes that this order is in response to individuals going to machinists, having nothing to do with gunsmiths, and paying a few hundred dollars for use of his machining devices to mill a billet into a receiver for a AR or AK. The machinist in question will do the setting and the customer will hit the power button. Once this process is over, parts can be ordered to complete the firearm. One could make his or her own firearm with no numbers as long as the item is never sold. I am not a machinist and do not understand the process, but it has been done according to this individual who I have found to be quite credible over the years. Ironically, the practice described can continue being the machinist is not a licensed FFL/Gunsmith.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy76 View Post
    Yes, they're called build parties. A shop invites a group of people with 80% lowers or AK flats and parts kits to use his tools and knowledge to safely complete a rifle. The knowledgable individual oversees the group build or complete their rifles with the use of his tools.
    I am a machinist and that kind of build party where all the owner of the lower does is push a button on a CNC machine is sketchy. Training someone to actually perform the required tasks and using borrowed tools is another story. There's a big difference between the two. I don't know of anyone specifically, and not trying to just spread Internet he said/he said rumors, but I have seen posts on other forums where the push button lower machining created problems for some folks, particularly in CA (I know, CA). That particular type of 'build party' is probably illegal. Do people do it? I'm sure. But I wouldn't risk it.

    Here's an analogy. You give a friend a hammer and a saw. He has wood and nails. You walk him through every step to build a wall. You advise, but he does all the work. OTOH, you build the wall, and leave one nail partially nailed in. Then your friend hammers that nail in. Who built the wall in each case?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bang View Post
    I know a damned good man, a good gunsmith, police instructor, lot of long-established credentials who is now out of business. He was nearing giving up. This is the final nail. He is done.

    It would seem to me that the major manufacturers will be next. Seems linear logic.
    At this time the ITAR registration fee is not prohibitive to larger manufacturers. Are the some level FFL's that already pay that fee? But you're right. It's a step. If you can't outlaw something, tax it into extinction.
    Last edited by esh21167; August 1st, 2016 at 05:46 PM.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: new executive order on gun control

    After some thought on the matter at hand I considered that a busy fulltime gunsmith will probably cough up the 2300 bucks for the permit. Such Smith would probably pay about as much in liability insurance. For the small scale smith's and as I said earlier, they will continue to do work for close customers and will, like Obama, fly under the radar. The power pig got his EO, and enforcing it is another matter, eve if such survives appeal.


    The firearm industry has always been in creative in adjusting to the bastards that hate them so much. Why? Somebody has always had money in their pocket to make the bother profitable.
    Last edited by c45man; August 1st, 2016 at 08:11 PM.

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