PA Law on Surrendering Firearm During a Stop

[Odocoileus1]

Hi all,

I am new to the forum and am hoping to get a fact based answer to a question that I have been researching.

The scenario is: You are stopped by a cop while legally carrying concealed in PA (in a car, at a grocery store, walking down the street, wherever). You are generally respectful/cooperative. You either choose to inform the cop that you are carrying or, s/he notices that you are carrying. (I know there is no requirement to inform in PA, just bear with me). Upon finding out you are carrying the cop asks for you to hand over your permit and your gun. Assuming that you have done nothing threatening or anything else that could reasonably be perceived as evidence of a crime (probable cause) do you 1) have to furnish your CCW permit and 2) what are the LAWS regarding surrendering a firearm to a cop with regard to their legitimate authority and an individuals right to refuse.


I am having a lot of trouble finding anything other than "if I were in that situation....." out there so I would appreciate someone with a legal background to weigh in with applicable PA code if possible. I personally am conflicted about whether or not I would inform a cop I was carrying as I see a lot of validity to both sides. That's why I would like to have a legal leg to stand on if I do make the game time decision to inform (which I feel is a personal choice we all have to make) and it turns out my honesty is not rewarded. I think I know the theoretical legal answer but I would appreciate references to any valid case law if there are no relevant statutes. I have no intent of complacently surrendering any civil liberties, breaking the law, reinforcing overreach of police power or ending up in a body bag so the answers to the above questions are much appreciated.

Thanks

[Mitch10mm]

I don't have an answer for you but I will say I'd have the cop disarm me. I'd explain how my qls rig works. I'm not reaching for my gun

[rwilson452]

If your ask for your LTCF you must give it to them it doesn't matter if your just walking and open carry which doesn't require it. If they want you to surrender your firearm you must. Its a "LEO safety" thing. More than likely they will retrieve it themselves so you don't need to touch it. I have informed local cops and they were annoyed I even told them. I could tell by the look they gave me, not by any voice offering. Big city cops are an entirely different matter, especially in Philly.

[Sgt.K]

Hi all,

I am new to the forum and am hoping to get a fact based answer to a question that I have been researching.

The scenario is: You are stopped by a cop while legally carrying concealed in PA (in a car, at a grocery store, walking down the street, wherever). You are generally respectful/cooperative. You either choose to inform the cop that you are carrying or, s/he notices that you are carrying. (I know there is no requirement to inform in PA, just bear with me). Upon finding out you are carrying the cop asks for you to hand over your permit and your gun. Assuming that you have done nothing threatening or anything else that could reasonably be perceived as evidence of a crime (probable cause) do you 1) have to furnish your CCW permit and 2) what are the LAWS regarding surrendering a firearm to a cop with regard to their legitimate authority and an individuals right to refuse.


I am having a lot of trouble finding anything other than "if I were in that situation....." out there so I would appreciate someone with a legal background to weigh in with applicable PA code if possible. I personally am conflicted about whether or not I would inform a cop I was carrying as I see a lot of validity to both sides. That's why I would like to have a legal leg to stand on if I do make the game time decision to inform (which I feel is a personal choice we all have to make) and it turns out my honesty is not rewarded. I think I know the theoretical legal answer but I would appreciate references to any valid case law if there are no relevant statutes. I have no intent of complacently surrendering any civil liberties, breaking the law, reinforcing overreach of police power or ending up in a body bag so the answers to the above questions are much appreciated.

Thanks

Generally, having your LTCF is a defense to carrying a loaded firearm in enumerated disallowed situations:
1. Concealed
2. In/on a vehicle
3. During a State of Emergency
4. In a city of the First Class (Philadelphia is currently the only one)

If you are carrying in one of these situations, and you have the *slightest* question about the law, please provide your LTCF for them to verify. The only time a cop ever took possession of my firearm my hands were already against the wall - it will not happen again if I have anything to say about it. I will gladly produce my LTCF to avoid bracelets, but I will be damned if I'm gonna let Officer Fumblefingers sweep me or any bystanders with .45ACP hollowpoints while trying to figure out how to clear a 1911.

Others will be by with their opinions and legal citations.

I Am Not A Lawyer (IANAL)
YMMV
My 2¢
etc...

[chp1911]

The only way that a LEO will put his hands on my pistol is after he arrests me. I am not saying this to be confrontational but I have seen my local PD qualify and seen their gun handling. They carry a different pistol than I do and unless I personally know that they are well versed in MY type of pistol I am not willingly surrendering it. and that would be for officer safety and MY safety as well as any by standers.

[kp15460]

If someone didn't break any laws, why should they surrender their firearm? If they take your LTCF from your possession to inspect, are you in violation of having a firearm while sitting in a car?

[rwilson452]

The only way that a LEO will put his hands on my pistol is after he arrests me. I am not saying this to be confrontational but I have seen my local PD qualify and seen their gun handling. They carry a different pistol than I do and unless I personally know that they are well versed in MY type of pistol I am not willingly surrendering it. and that would be for officer safety and MY safety as well as any by standers.

I sometimes carry my XD. it has a lighter trigger than most LEO are familiar with. That does worry me some. Its loaded with 230gr GDHPs.

I can assure you if you resist them taking your firearm you will not like the result.

[chp1911]

I am not saying that I would start a fist fight but,, I am not handing a loaded pistol to anyone that I do not personally know nor am I letting ANYONE remove a loaded pistol from a holster that I am wearing. So the officer would have to make a decision, leave my pistol in MY holster or arrest me.

[Bang]

You know what might be an interesting project. As many of us as can be mustered send a letter to the chief of their local police departments asking what their officers are trained to do when conducting in-person verbal transaction with a citizen who is armed with a pistol and is licensed to do so. Specifically, what, if any, action is the officer to do regarding the presence of the handgun?

Allow enough time to elapse and collect the information, reduce it to percentages and categories and compare the information with what the law is, and how safety is or is not compromised.

Then, should it surface that departments are violating rights, laws, safety considerations, follow up with letters requesting that appropriate adjustments be made to department policies.

[priell3]

I gave up my gun twice in Philly. It pays to cooperate, something BLM needs to learn.

The first time I was stopped seven cops showed up and one had his gun drawn. The last two times I was stopped I wasn't disarmed and the very last time the cop just asked if I had a LTCF. I said yes, he said okay and drove away. All of those incidents were several years ago.