No Fly / No Buy

**Pizza Bob** · June 17th, 2016, 06:47 PM

In the past two days I have watched “news” reports on network TV where the owners of two separate and unrelated gun stores in Philadelphia, have advocated for some of the changes being sought by the anti-2A faction. What surprises me the most is that both owners appeared to be immigrants from former Soviet Bloc countries.

One would think that they, especially, would have a greater appreciation for the freedoms granted them under our constitution. Both advocated for the “No fly / No buy” legislation being pushed hard by many democrats and misguided republicans in Congress. Forget the second amendment, these people are willing to throw away their rights under the fifth and fourteenth amendments.

This is especially egregious on the part of the two gun store owners. One would imagine that, coming from an environment where lists were created at a leader’s whim, and people on those lists often just disappeared, that they would be vehemently opposed to any list that didn’t have some form of judicial over reach and due process.

To paraphrase our forefathers, “Those willing to give up freedom for security, deserve neither”.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

**JAKIII** · June 17th, 2016, 06:52 PM

Terrorist watch list and no fly list are synonymous. I wouldn't let someone on either list date my sister.

**Ecclectic Collector** · June 18th, 2016, 06:31 AM

Two words: Due Process.

Come up with a transparent process to put people on the list, with an annual review process about keeping a person on the list that has a right to due process and appeal. Add to this a right to know at least a basic reason why a person is on the list and maybe it would pass legal muster under our system of government.

The original reason for this super secret list was based on intelligence information. It has morphed into something else. If it is in our nation's interest to ban people people from flying or owning a gun this list needs to pass constitutional muster.

Do it the correct way, or abolish it entirely.

**ShooterInPA1** · June 18th, 2016, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by JAKIII

Terrorist watch list and no fly list are synonymous. I wouldn't let someone on either list date my sister.

Steve Hayes of the National Review made that list, as did Ted Kennedy IIRC.

Easy to get put on; not so easy to get off. There needs to be a better method of ascertaining if someone is a threat than this idea, as the Orlando shooter was not even on this list. So why is it even being recommended as a "solution", except to deprive legal gun owners of their rights?

**ShooterInPA1** · June 18th, 2016, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Ecclectic Collector

Two words: Due Process.

Come up with a transparent process to put people on the list, with an annual review process about keeping a person on the list that has a right to due process and appeal. Add to this a right to know at least a basic reason why a person is on the list and maybe it would pass legal muster under our system of government.

The original reason for this super secret list was based on intelligence information. It has morphed into something else. If it is in our nation's interest to ban people people from flying or owning a gun this list needs to pass constitutional muster.

Do it the correct way, or abolish it entirely.

If someone is truly dangerous enough that they cannot buy a gun, cannot fly etc, then why aren't they deported back their hellhole? Why are they allowed to walk the streets and why are hey your neighbor?

THIS is the type of discussion wee SHOULD be having.

**Silence Dogood** · June 18th, 2016, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by JAKIII

Terrorist watch list and no fly list are synonymous. I wouldn't let someone on either list date my sister.

Actually, that's completely false, and what the media wants you to think. Every time you hear that, just remember that the term 'terror watch list' is fictional.

There IS no 'terrorist watch list.' Think about it, why would you want to 'watch' them - if they're terrorists take them down. We have (a) The TSDB (Terrorist Screening Database) which takes information from TIDE and international sources, it's name-driven not identity-driven and has more than 1,000,000 names on it, many Americans. You'll probably fly but maybe not, maybe with a little more screening or notification of the authorities. Interpol could report that there is concern about a 'JAKIII' and you're automatically flagged because you have that name (b) the No-Fly list, a much-smaller list (number is secret, maybe 50,000) with many fewer Americans, of folks who are 'too dangerous to fly' and (c) the Selectee list who are people who are selected for additional screening, sometimes just at random.

What Democrats are selling here, is 'No-fly, No-buy' BUT the bill is something quite different and includes the entire TSDB. So it's NOT 'No-fly, No-buy' it's REALLY 'Gov't List, No-Buy.' If you are on a secret Government list you lose your Constitutional rights.

People either don't get this, or don't care.

**qmcorps** · June 18th, 2016, 07:56 AM

Incremental steps by the left. Never let a crisis go to waste. This idea stinks. The communist think generationally, the republicants, in 2, 4, and 6 year Increments.