I think a lot of people who tell these PICs horror stories aren't telling the whole

[4thdimension]

story. We all hear these stories about people trying to buy a gun and getting arrested because they didn't know they were prohibited. Having worked in the addiction treatment field I have dealt with a lot of people with records and 90% of them lie about their convictions. I have met two individuals whom were arrested for trying to purchase guns and both were clearly prohibited due to having multiple felony convictions. One lied to me and told me he didn't know his record was prohibiting because he didn't have any felony convictions. Well I pulled up his record and he was full of it. He most definitely had numerous felony convictions before he tried to buy a gun and given the time frame between his robbery convictions and his conviction for lying on the PICs form it seems reasonable to believe that he was probably on parole when he tried to buy a gun. I really don't think the PSP is out to get people who shouldn't be got. I've been arrested a few times but I was asking for it everytime. It has also been my experience that as long as you don't act like a douche they usually just give you a slap on the wrist. Just my thoughts on the matter.

[McSull]

This belongs in the general forum , not the PA laws and politics

[Krichardson]

No need for a mod here.

[GunLawyer001]

This belongs in the general forum , not the PA laws and politics

No, there's an effort to change PA law to get rid of PICS, based in part on the stories of abuse, some of which are not exactly true.

Maybe the people who come to me for help are mostly the good guys, self-selecting themselves because they believe they are right and want to be vindicated. The others, the ones who don't want to sound stupid to their friends, and who don't want the steely-eyed FFL to think less of them, will just fabricate tales of governmental JBT oppression. But they won't spend a dime to get justice, because those guys know that justice is not their friend this time.

There are people who had DUI's or teenaged 302's who I believe are genuinely unaware of the facts, because the facts in both cases are very hard to discover. Older 302 records are inaccessible to everyone except PICS, and they won't tell you until it's too late. And the law on DUI requires a pretty good understanding of legal jargon, and reference to 2 separate titles (the Crimes code & Vehicle code), before you can figure out the max penalty for DUI offenses.

I can't blame PICS for this, they're complying with Federal law, which is NOT based on time served (people tend to remember spending 3 years in prison). It's based on a legal conclusion, "what is the maximum penalty under that statute?"

But yes, a lot of people are spinning tales when they tell you how they have been wronged and that they are totally innocent.

[Rosco the Iroc]

And it's their first post on here.

[bogey1]

I still dont understand how I pass nics/pics with all the shit I did when I was younger.
But I'm not complaining

[ungawa]

I think most of the ones that post here have no idea what is going on. If they knew they were prohibited, what would be the point of posting here?

People do weird stuff, and like to complain, but I think that's the minority. Most are posting here looking for answers.

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

The portion Phil mentions below about either unknown or juvenile 302s are I believe, one of the most seriously flawed aspects of the system that needs to be fixed. In addition, the extremely limited exceptions allowed to get clear of a 302 are in no way justice or protecting the population from "crazy" people.

Regards, Jim

There are people who had DUI's or teenaged 302's who I believe are genuinely unaware of the facts, because the facts in both cases are very hard to discover. Older 302 records are inaccessible to everyone except PICS, and they won't tell you until it's too late.

[SuperVel]

Greetings,

The portion Phil mentions below about either unknown or juvenile 302s are I believe, one of the most seriously flawed aspects of the system that needs to be fixed. In addition, the extremely limited exceptions allowed to get clear of a 302 are in no way justice or protecting the population from "crazy" people.

Regards, Jim

I agree with all of this.

What confuses me, is that some people pass PICS no problem, then get denied for a LTCF based on some conviction or mental health issue. I'm not talking about a character clause issue either.

Does the Sheriff's dept. have access to a "deeper" pool of information? What's the deal with this?

[4thdimension]

I agree with all of this.

What confuses me, is that some people pass PICS no problem, then get denied for a LTCF based on some conviction or mental health issue. I'm not talking about a character clause issue either.

Does the Sheriff's dept. have access to a "deeper" pool of information? What's the deal with this?

Sheriffs use PICs. People pass PICs because the standards aren't as high as they are for an LTCF. They probably have a drug conviction or something that doesn't prohibit them from buying guns but prohibits them from getting a LTCF. Of course people don't like to admit these things so they make up some bull shit story and blame the Sheriff.