Reciprocity Throughout

**Muscle Master** · May 19th, 2016, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Inigoes

Only if we can get mandatory training for voting!

You have a better chance of open carrying next to the president than that happening lol

**bigandy1966** · May 19th, 2016, 03:49 PM

Okay lets play out your scenario:
First, lets base this on a premise everyone can afford a "Small TAX" of $50 because that's what it will be a tax to enable your exercising your right to keep and bear arms.
Next election cycle, the liberals are elected, and they decide to use this "tax" to some useless fund like gunviolence victims fund and increase it to $150
Then next election cycle the liberals decide that in addition to another increase in the tax, of another $250 for the children of the victims of gun violence to enable you to exercise your RTKBA you must now also purchase insurance. For the nominal sum of $1000 a year to carry your firearm out in public, They also increase the stipulation that you must be able to hit a target with your firearm at 100 yards with 3 shots out of 5.
Then next election cycle the Liberla left gets it in their heads that all ammunition purchased must have a ID and insurance card, as well as your LTCF. In addition another $100 to the "Small tax" to fund smart gun technology

See where this goes?

Who decides what the requirements are going to be?

Whats to stop them from placing more and more restrictions and incrementally infringing your rights as they already do?
Open the door a little and they will kick it in all the way.
Not just NO but HELL no.

**Muscle Master** · May 19th, 2016, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by bigandy1966

Okay lets play out your scenario:
First, lets base this on a premise everyone can afford a "Small TAX" of $50 because that's what it will be a tax to enable your exercising your right to keep and bear arms.
Next election cycle, the liberals are elected, and they decide to use this "tax" to some useless fund like gunviolence victims fund and increase it to $150
Then next election cycle the liberals decide that in addition to another increase in the tax, of another $250 for the children of the victims of gun violence to enable you to exercise your RTKBA you must now also purchase insurance. For the nominal sum of $1000 a year to carry your firearm out in public, They also increase the stipulation that you must be able to hit a target with your firearm at 100 yards with 3 shots out of 5.
Then next election cycle the Liberla left gets it in their heads that all ammunition purchased must have a ID and insurance card, as well as your LTCF. In addition another $100 to the "Small tax" to fund smart gun technology

See where this goes?

Who decides what the requirements are going to be?

Whats to stop them from placing more and more restrictions and incrementally infringing your rights as they already do?
Open the door a little and they will kick it in all the way.
Not just NO but HELL no.

The NRA!

Absorb the NRA into the government to work only under the 2nd Amendment, and answer to no one, not congress, not the executive branch, not the Supreme Court

Of course all that latter is impossible

**knight0334** · May 19th, 2016, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Muscle Master

You know... If this was to become a real thing

I believe along with this bill... There should be a requirement for proper training with said gun before you get your national license to carry (damn that sounds good)

I know I pissed you guys off and I know why.. But just hear me out

Maybe the Government and the NRA can come together on a 8-12 hour training class for a small fee along with the background checks, you qualify your skills with said gun to a certain score, you pass and get your license

It would give our ranges a lot more business to thrive as well. Though all that I said might be an invitation for more government oversight

Anyway... It was just a thought but by having a national concealed carry license opens up the possibilities of a lot more idiots with guns (thinking of the thread where an idiot stuffed a gun in his sock) and crazy people

No, absolutely NO.

Where I live it is 20 miles to the nearest Walmart. In some areas to the north a gas station is just as far away.

Nowhere, and I mean nowhere, are any sort of classes taught around here. But hey, we don't need them. The vast majority of us living in this area were born with a nickel plated revolver in their mouth.

There are over 1 million PA LTCF licensees, well more than Texas, and yet we do not have a problem with licensees shooting up places, shooting the wrong people, etc, etc.

Training requirements are just a means of appeasement for the anti-gun folks.

**Muscle Master** · May 19th, 2016, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by knight0334

No, absolutely NO.

Where I live it is 20 miles to the nearest Walmart. In some areas to the north a gas station is just as far away.

Nowhere, and I mean nowhere, are any sort of classes taught around here. But hey, we don't need them. The vast majority of us living in this area were born with a nickel plated revolver in their mouth.

There are over 1 million PA LTCF licensees, well more than Texas, and yet we do not have a problem with licensees shooting up places, shooting the wrong people, etc, etc.

Training requirements are just a means of appeasement for the anti-gun folks.

For the sake of argument.. You have to give the dems something... If this deal was really on the table and mandatory training was the only thing in the way... We wouldn't eat that?

I'm not concerned about the mentally insane and criminals... I'm concerned about the idiots

You can never have too much training. If you have to study a bit and take a test to get your drivers license. It should be the same to get your carry license on the national scale

And as far as the logistics go... In the perfect world, it's once every 3-5 years if it goes through. Small price to pay

**knight0334** · May 19th, 2016, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Muscle Master

For the sake of argument.. You have to give the dems something... If this deal was really on the table and mandatory training was the only thing in the way... We wouldn't eat that?

I'm not concerned about the mentally insane and criminals... I'm concerned about the idiots

You can never have too much training. If you have to study a bit and take a test to get your drivers license. It should be the same to get your carry license on the national scale

And as far as the logistics go... In the perfect world, it's once every 3-5 years if it goes through. Small price to pay

Bearing arms is an enumerated right. Driving is a privilege. A vehicle is a far deadlier device than a gun. A 3500lb vehicle at 60mph has 421209ft lbs of energy. The most powerful bearable shoulder arm has about 16000ft lbs.

The answer is still no.

Besides, Congress has no authority to dictate such. They can force states via the powers in the 14th Amendment to honor our 2A rights due to the McDonald case, but they cannot create a higher standard of licensing since only the states could ever possibly wield the power under the 10th Amendment.

**Muscle Master** · May 19th, 2016, 06:24 PM

Yeah that's a good point

I guess we can agree to disagree

**philadelphia patriot** · May 19th, 2016, 06:49 PM

Can somebody please let me know when the training is to express my first amendment rights on PAFOA?

**eagleclaw** · May 19th, 2016, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Muscle Master

You know... If this was to become a real thing

I believe along with this bill... There should be a requirement for proper training with said gun before you get your national license to carry (damn that sounds good)

I know I pissed you guys off and I know why.. But just hear me out

Maybe the Government and the NRA can come together on a 8-12 hour training class for a small fee along with the background checks, you qualify your skills with said gun to a certain score, you pass and get your license

It would give our ranges a lot more business to thrive as well. Though all that I said might be an invitation for more government oversight

Anyway... It was just a thought but by having a national concealed carry license opens up the possibilities of a lot more idiots with guns (thinking of the thread where an idiot stuffed a gun in his sock) and crazy people

As far as I am concerned, mandatory training is a de facto gun carry ban. One needs to take a look at the logistics needed to carry this requirement out. For an 8-10 hour class one is going to need a classroom. For a shooting test one is going to need a range. How the hell are approx. 1 million current LCTF holders going to be able to take the said class and test not to mention new applicants? The classes are going to be limited in size. Ranges are not going to be easy to find. If police or sheriffs have a part in running the class, there is a potential that they will throw in all kinds of false information. (ex one cannot carry in banks ,bars, etc) As already mentioned fees have a tendency to go up. Many qualified people will be excluded due to work, location of the class, or turn away because the classes are already full. Of course range instructors will always find room for their friends and relatives.

Fuck no to this to this ridiculous and insane plan.

**philadelphia patriot** · May 19th, 2016, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by eagleclaw

As far as I am concerned, mandatory training is a de facto gun carry ban. One needs to take a look at the logistics needed to carry this requirement out. For an 8-10 hour class one is going to need a classroom. For a shooting test one is going to need a range. How the hell are approx. 1 million current LCTF holders going to be able to take the said class and test not to mention new applicants? The classes are going to be limited in size. Ranges are not going to be easy to find. If police or sheriffs have a part in running the class, there is a potential that they will throw in all kinds of false information. (ex one cannot carry in banks ,bars, etc) As already mentioned fees have a tendency to go up. Many qualified people will be excluded due to work, location of the class, or turn away because the classes are already full. Of course range instructors will always find room for their friends and relatives.

Fuck no to this to this ridiculous and insane plan.

I can't wait to be forced to take a mandated training class with James Yeager