Transporting shotgun to NJ for sporting clays?

**tl_3237** · May 13th, 2016, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by sota

oh trust me I know. I commit multiple felonies every time I take someone new to the range. and I'll gladly keep doing so. the subject of "possession" came up one night at a club meeting years ago. Of the 100+ people in the room there were only 2 of us who actually KNEW that without having been certified* you can't actually let someone else touch your gun. I was one of them.

* note: there's absolutely no description in any document, official or not, that describes what "certified" actually means. some think being able to teach NRA Basic Pistol is enough, but again there's no document that says what qualifies. it's a lot harder to screw someone over if you actually tell them what the rules are. WELCOME TO NEW JERSEY!

Actually "Certified" is well defined by NJ statute:

NJSA 2C:58-3.2. Temporary transfer of firearm for training purposes
1. a. Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:39-9, N.J.S.2C:58-2, N.J.S.2C:58-3 or any other statute to the contrary, a person who is certified as an instructor in the use, handling and maintenance of firearms by the Police Training Commission, the Division of Fish, Game and Wildlife and the State Park Service in the Department of Environmental Protection, the Director of Civilian Marksmanship of the United States Department of the Army or by a recognized rifle or pistol association that certifies instructors may transfer a firearm temporarily in accordance with the terms of this section to a person participating in a training course for the use, handling and maintenance of firearms by the Police Training Commission, the Division of Fish, Game and Wildlife, the Director of Civilian Marksmanship or by a recognized rifle or pistol association that certifies instructors. The person to whom a firearm is transferred by a certified instructor in accordance with the terms of this section may receive, possess, carry and use the firearm temporarily during the sessions of the course for the purpose of training and participating in the course.

**jim-analog** · May 17th, 2016, 04:55 PM

Greetings,

Along with all the other nonsense about the very few legal reasons for transporting a firearm there's another issue. Somewhere in the confusing NJ statute is a "qualifier" about the specific type of "shooting range" that travel with a firearm was permitted to. I forget the term, but it was something along the lines of "officially sanctioned" or "licensed" or "NJ approved" or whatever. The way it was defined seemed to preclude going to private property to shoot (something I used to do at a friends' farm in NJ long ago). I'll try to find the paragraph and edit this post when I do.

Regards, Jim

**tl_3237** · May 18th, 2016, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by jim-analog

Greetings,

Along with all the other nonsense about the very few legal reasons for transporting a firearm there's another issue. Somewhere in the confusing NJ statute is a "qualifier" about the specific type of "shooting range" that travel with a firearm was permitted to. I forget the term, but it was something along the lines of "officially sanctioned" or "licensed" or "NJ approved" or whatever. The way it was defined seemed to preclude going to private property to shoot (something I used to do at a friends' farm in NJ long ago). I'll try to find the paragraph and edit this post when I do.

Regards, Jim

Here are the two types of ranges qualifying for NJ exemption:

NJSA 2C:39-6f. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

(1)A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

(2)A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license;

(3)A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

(a)Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided the person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license; or

(b)Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder;

The ambiguity is with 6f(3)(b) in that it leaves much to interpretation. An ad hoc range on private land is in the gray area.

**jim-analog** · May 18th, 2016, 07:28 PM

Greetings,

Thanks very much for finding that so quickly. I knew I'd read it and recalled being confused as to how it would relate to a "range" on private property that was not recognized specifically as noted in the first section.

The first time I went to shoot on my friends farm, I called the NJSP (yes, I now know that's not a good source of correct info) to ask about the legalities of the types of firearms that I could bring, mag capacities, etc.. It didn't even occur to me at the time (and quite possibly has changed since) there were official definitions of what is a "qualifying" range.

I'm happy to stay on the free side of the river here in PA. I can't even think of a compelling enough reason that I'd consider going to NJ with any firearms now (that would be legal). My cousin is a member at what seems to be a really nice range in NJ (has 300 yard rifle) and has invited me, but I've passed.

Regards, Jim

Originally Posted by tl_3237

Here are the two types of ranges qualifying for NJ exemption:

The ambiguity is with 6f(3)(b) in that it leaves much to interpretation. An ad hoc range on private land is in the gray area.

**ungawa** · May 18th, 2016, 07:54 PM

F Jersey.

**kirk2022** · May 18th, 2016, 08:11 PM

Guys, Being from NJ I will be the first to say that yes it is F ed up here as far as the laws.
But lets be serious for A minute. I travel many times to Oxford, PA to shoot trap, 2 shotguns and ammo.
I go to Lehigh Valley to shoot sporting clays regularly. Plus Wilmington de. for trap and Hopkins Game farm in Maryland for clays.
I travel with no worries or concerns. Have been since the mid 80s when I started shooting clay sports.

As far as coming to NJ to shoots clays as the OP asked. M&M has some really big shoots that draw people from all over the country. They fly in thru Philly, Drive in from states all around, They don't stay away because they are scared to bring their shotguns to NJ.
We are having the NJ and DE. State trap shoots at Pinebelt Sportsman in NJ in the coming weeks. Both will draw shooters from as far away as Florida. They come and shoot.
If it was as bad as has been put in this post then why do we travel all over to shoot competitions in NJ and other States.
Yes NJ sucks! But like always travel safely, Enjoy shooting the really good clubs we have here if you like. But most of all don't scare the hell out of the guy that asked A question.

OP, If you do come shoot M&M you will surely enjoy it and most likely return.
Sorry for the rant Guys,

**ungawa** · May 18th, 2016, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by kirk2022

Guys, Being from NJ I will be the first to say that yes it is F ed up here as far as the laws.
But lets be serious for A minute. I travel many times to Oxford, PA to shoot trap, 2 shotguns and ammo.
I go to Lehigh Valley to shoot sporting clays regularly. Plus Wilmington de. for trap and Hopkins Game farm in Maryland for clays.
I travel with no worries or concerns. Have been since the mid 80s when I started shooting clay sports.

And I carried a handgun in high school in Jersey. And drank underage. None of which proves anything.

**Berncly** · May 22nd, 2016, 03:37 PM

I have personal experience with this issue. I will try to be brief.

"There is the way it ought to be, and the way it is". Jersey is a notable example of dealing with something the way it is.

I am a retired LEO. I live in PA. I have a valid HR218 issued from PA. I can carry in NJ.

Despite my being exempt from many NJ gun laws, I have been legally advised that NJ can and will give me a hard time if given the opportunity.

There are dozens of cases of retired (and even active) LEOs that had to go to court and spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to reverse charges brought against them for carrying in NJ (NY etc).

The liberal Democrat legislature in NJ (and NY et al) deliberately make it difficult to clearly abide by their gun laws. They hope that this will discourage gun owners from living in, and traveling to, their state(s).

It does not matter on the street what is written in the law (and referred to in this forum). If you want to avoid trouble in NJ you have to deal with it the way it is.

If you are going to travel from out of state into NJ with a firearm, you should first obtain a "New Jersey Firearms Identification Card". This is NOT required by law for all situations. But I have been legally advised that if a firearm is discovered in your car, most NJ police officers will arrest you on the spot if you do not have the NJ Firearms ID Card (regardless of how the firearm is stored). NJ police officers are deliberately misinformed of the law, and are advised by their superiors to arrest you and then work out the legalities later in court (at your expense).

I found that local NJ police departments told me that as a PA resident I could not obtain a New Jersey Firearms Identification Card, and so I would have no way to satisfy the "law" to their satisfaction. A lawyer advised me that the local NJ police departments are misinformed, and are not reliable sources regarding gun laws (despite their enforcement of them). I had to contact the NJ State Police in order to get correct information regarding how to obtain the NJ Firearms ID Card as a PA resident.

If you intend to travel to NJ with a firearm, being within the letter of the law is not enough. You must understand NJ the way it is.

I would strongly advise you to obtain and read the following items.

Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States, by J Scott Kappas, Esq (updated annually).
https://www.gunlawguide.com/

New Jersey Gun Law, by Evan F Nappen, Esq (updated annually).
http://www.evannappen.com/

If you are a retired LEO with a valid HR218 planning to travel into NJ (NY etc), you should obtain and read the following.
Sheepdog Academy, Course Material, by Steve Mannion, Esq (updated as available)
http://www.hr218leosa.com/

NJ is not all bad. But you need to know "the way it is".
I hope this was helpful.
Berncly-