The Challenge!

[fingers80002]

As you can tell by the title, this is a challenge.

I would like the anti-OC and anti-gun people to post here.
However, there are some rules.

Please provide documented proof of…..

1) A person OC’ing being targeted as the first target in a crime.

2) A person OC’ing having their firearm taken away by a criminal.

3) A person OC’ing NOT having a TACTICAL advantage.
( I feel not having to draw from a concealed position is an ADVANTAGE.)
( as well, that OC is a deterrent.)

4) How a John Q. Person has a right to cause a problem for someone OC’ing ,just because they THINK or FEEL it’s wrong or Illegal.

These are the Rules.
No rumors.
No hypothetical scenarios.
No “I think this ,or I think that..”
No” If this happened , this is what will happen….”

I am looking for DOCUMENTED FACTS!!!

If you cannot provide documented facts, DO NOT POST!!!

ETA:
NO LEO getting their guns taken.
LEOS Cannot retreat like a common citizen.

Thanks, PisnNapalm.

[shefearsnothing]

[PisnNapalm]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,326228,00.html

NEW ORLEANS — A vagrant wanted for questioning in a rape overpowered a police officer who was trying to handcuff him, then shot her to death with her own weapon Monday, police said.

http://www.truveo.com/Chicago-Police...id/2242375907#

A Chicago Police officer was shot and killed early Wednesday after a struggle in which a woman wrested his gun from him. CBS 2's Joanie Lum reports.

http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/new...own_weapon.php

Police officer shot by own weapon

http://www.gothamgazette.com/article...0040916/4/1119

Police Killed With Their Own Guns

Perhaps I'm not playing fair but you never said to exclude police officers. A vast majority of them openly carry their firearms. Every one of those officers had firearms retention training. Everyone one of them were shot and or killed with their own weapons.

It does happen to people trained to prevent just such a thing.

I am not anti-OC or pro-OC. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

/me picks up the gauntlet and hands it back to fingers80002.

[fingers80002]

I forgot to add the part about LEO's.
LEO's DO NOT have the retreat option, they are required to engage a BG in H-H. Sorry for the mistake.

[tdyoung58]

Perhaps I'm not playing fair but you never said to exclude police officers. A vast majority of them openly carry their firearms. Every one of those officers had firearms retention training. Everyone one of them were shot and or killed with their own weapons.

And many times were the intended victim to begin with in some cities

[jahwarrior72]

did anyone else notice that it's next to impossible to find documentation of ordinary citizens having their weapon taken from them, but there's stories abound where LEOs are disarmed?

[shefearsnothing]

did anyone else notice that it's next to impossible to find documentation of ordinary citizens having their weapon taken from them, but there's stories abound where LEOs are disarmed?

That's because unfortunately they aren't always properly trained. This isn't THEIR fault either!!!! It's the fault of the commonwealth...kind of like it's the commonwealth's fault for not providing proper training of the law...like that it's legal to OC...but carry on... (no pun intended).

[PennsyPlinker]

Perhaps I'm not playing fair but you never said to exclude police officers. A vast majority of them openly carry their firearms. Every one of those officers had firearms retention training. Everyone one of them were shot and or killed with their own weapons.

It does happen to people trained to prevent just such a thing.

I am not anti-OC or pro-OC. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

/me picks up the gauntlet and hands it back to fingers80002.

This is a valid thing to bring up. But alongside that needs to be the consideration of the amount of training the officer has. Think of how some of these officers handle weapons overall. They most likely pull their weapon twice a year to qualify. How much do you think they train, or even think about retention?

I don't know what the stats are, but officers have their cars stolen too, because they leave them running while they are out and about doing other stuff.

[Brown-Bear]

OOOOH. Its on like......





This should be good.

[MartinBrody]

did anyone else notice that it's next to impossible to find documentation of ordinary citizens having their weapon taken from them, but there's stories abound where LEOs are disarmed?

This may be statistical, there are well over 500,000 police officers in this country most of which openly carry their weapons. They are also actively involved in intervening into criminal situations.

In contrast, the # of citizens OCing is probably minute by comparison, if a large # of citizens OC'd it might be easier to find a case fitting your challenge.

Also consider this, not many criminals are walking around waiting to see someone with a gun to take it, because they would be waiting a long time, I have never seen it except in a gun shop.

My point is I don't think your challenge will prove much of a point if no one can find a case meeting your criteria. BTW I am not against OC in any way.