GOA challange to machine gun ban.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

On November 2, Gun Owners of America (and its foundation) joined forces with Dick Heller -- the very one who beat DC’s gun ban before the Supreme Court in 2008.

Working in tandem, Gun Owners filed a brief in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit in support of a challenge to the federal machine gun ban, which was stuck on at the last minute to an otherwise pro-gun bill in 1986.

First and foremost, Gun Owners argues that the “arms” protected by the Second Amendment include fully automatic weapons, and that Supreme Court opinions have bolstered this view.

Our brief explains that the Second Amendment is not about hunting or target shooting, but about the preservation of liberty.

You can read an analysis of the GOA brief in Hollis v. Lynch -- or view the GOA brief in its entirety here.
http://www.gunowners.org/news11102015.htm
http://www.gunowners.org/images/pdf/n20151110.pdf
Go here to financially help support the GOA brief in this case.

Since its founding, Gun Owners of America has built its reputation as the “no compromise” gun lobby.

We want to repeal any restriction that violates the “shall not be infringed” language of the Second Amendment -- going all the way back to 1934.

So GOA is not only working on the above machine gun case. We also want to file another brief supporting this same proposition -- that a machine gun ban is inconsistent with the protections afforded in the Bill of Rights.

But we need your help to file it.

We have always taken the position that the “arms” mentioned in the Second Amendment are the type of weapons that an infantryman in current military service would be issued. These are, in the words of an old Supreme Court case, “part of ordinary military equipment.”

One Court of Appeals judge has explained that the Second Amendment protects the “lineal descendants” of the arms brought to muster on the village green in revolutionary times.

Second Amendment helps erect a bulwark against tyranny

If the purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve a “free State,” then the people comprising the militia need to have the same type of “arms” that are available to the military.

We think you will like the arguments we made in our first brief to explain this important principle to the court.

Among other things, we quote Justice Joseph Story’s explanation regarding the true purpose of the Second Amendment:

The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic, since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers, and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them. [Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution, Volume III, p. 646.]

If the arms owned by the people are profoundly inferior to those of their “rulers,” the ability of the people “to resist” will be diminished, and the “strong moral check” on those rulers will be lost. Of course, that is what Diane Feinstein and her ilk want.

GOA is unique among pro-gun groups

Sadly, other pro-gun groups have run the other way when fully automatic weapons are mentioned.

In fact, a lawyer for one of these other “pro-gun” groups took the position before the U.S. Supreme Court that it was completely reasonable for the federal government to prohibit private ownership of fully automatic weapons.

But when David Olofson's AR-15 malfunctioned and he was charged with owning a machinegun, it was GOA that came to his aid -- not any other gun group.

http://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/...tiz8e2Dgg&lp=0

No one thinks that the First Amendment should be limited to pamphlets produced one at a time, as in revolutionary days. No one disputes that the First Amendment also protects radio and TV stations and the Internet.

Likewise, no one should think that the Second Amendment should be limited to Brown Bess muzzle-loading smoothbore muskets and Pennsylvania rifles. At all times, the Second Amendment was designed to protect the infantry “arms” of the times.

Help GOA win these machine gun cases

If you agree with me about fully automatic weapons, we could certainly use your help.

By making a special contribution to Gun Owners of America, you will help fund the Hollis brief we just filed, and to make possible the next brief that we would like to file, if we raise enough support.

The second case is U.S. v. Watson in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit (in Pennsylvania). GOA plans to make similar arguments to those we made in Hollis -- and by bringing several cases in multiple districts, we hope to force the Supreme Court to decide this issue in favor of Second Amendment rights.

Again, please consider making a contribution of $10, $20, $50 or more to help support these two cases.

Thank you for your defense of liberty!

Erich Pratt
Director of Communications
Gun Owners of America

[Delkal]

The only problem with these attempts is that no one who already owns a full auto wants this to happen.......

[Wildbill990]

Yeah. There are a lot of full auto owners and businesses who have lots of money tied up in the scarcity of full auto and im sure they will do all they can to stop such a thing from happening.

[Justin///M]

Is that true, though? A guy at work has 300K in auto weapons, and he says that he hopes bans are overturned, because who doesn't want modern auto stuff at reasonable prices? His guns will still be rare. They aren't going to make anymore vietnam era M16s. Will it command the 20+ grand that it does today, probably not, but to him, the access is more important than the value.

Now I know that's just one guy, but I have a hard time believing that there are businesses/people with NFA collections that would want to stop this. I could be wrong, though.

Justin

[Solaran_X]

Is that true, though? A guy at work has 300K in auto weapons, and he says that he hopes bans are overturned, because who doesn't want modern auto stuff at reasonable prices? His guns will still be rare. They aren't going to make anymore vietnam era M16s. Will it command the 20+ grand that it does today, probably not, but to him, the access is more important than the value.

Now I know that's just one guy, but I have a hard time believing that there are businesses/people with NFA collections that would want to stop this. I could be wrong, though.

Justin

One of my coworkers has four machine guns - a M1921 Thompson, a M1928 Thompson, a M1919 belt-fed and some fashion of Sten (not sure of the generation). And he supports overturning the ban as well - since he wants newer automatics as well. Will his collection take a hit? Probably. But WWII machine guns will still be worth a pretty penny even with the ban lifted.

I'd buy a KRISS Vector SMG in a heartbeat. Had a CRB, but without the full auto...it was just an expensive toy that was incapable of taking true advantage of its design.

[Justin///M]

One of my coworkers has four machine guns - a M1921 Thompson, a M1928 Thompson, a M1919 belt-fed and some fashion of Sten (not sure of the generation). And he supports overturning the ban as well - since he wants newer automatics as well. Will his collection take a hit? Probably. But WWII machine guns will still be worth a pretty penny even with the ban lifted.

I'd buy a KRISS Vector SMG in a heartbeat. Had a CRB, but without the full auto...it was just an expensive toy that was incapable of taking true advantage of its design.

Your friend and my friend have similar tastes, as some of those are on his list as well. He has an MP40 tube gun that I'm toying with buying this coming summer.

Justin

[Rosco the Iroc]

Well GOA I wish you luck, don't think there's a chance in hell it will happen, so please make me wrong!

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Well GOA I wish you luck, don't think there's a chance in hell it will happen, so please make me wrong!

I've really want the Second Amendment Foundation to take up the SBR & SBS ban, on the grounds that both are now the standard issue weapons of the US Army.

[Delkal]

Is that true, though? A guy at work has 300K in auto weapons, and he says that he hopes bans are overturned, because who doesn't want modern auto stuff at reasonable prices? His guns will still be rare. They aren't going to make anymore vietnam era M16s. Will it command the 20+ grand that it does today, probably not, but to him, the access is more important than the value.

You are partially correct. Classical old school autos ( Thompsons, Brownings, how about a Ma deuce!) will still be in demand and very expensive. Still the price will probably still drop some. Crappy full auto's like a Mac 10 for $2000+ will be relatively worthless.

As for Vietnam era M-16's I think your friend will be out of luck.......How many people want a Vietnam era AR compared to a modern semi clone of the latest version the military uses. Plus, It won't cost any more to make a new full auto AR than the current semi's......How about a $1000 (+stamp) modern M-16?

I hate to be cynical but the timing of introducing this bill is off. Wait (and hope) a year or two for the next elections. No way Obammy will let this one thru. I was wondering why this is getting press now until I saw the section on donations.....

[nfafan]

<snip>
I hate to be cynical but the timing of introducing this bill is off. Wait (and hope) a year or two for the next elections. No way Obammy will let this one thru. I was wondering why this is getting press now until I saw the section on donations.....

Agree. Waste of donation money. Where were these folks trying to push this when the RINOs were in majority power for like 8 straight years?

Fuck - they're trying to ban 6-shot DA revolvers these days, anyone with an IQ larger than their shoe size think we will see this ban lifted anytime soon? Not happening.

And as for the suspicion that folks with capital tied up in NFA NOT wanting to see the gun they paid $20K for last year suddenly fall to $12K or less 'cause now we can suddenly buy a newly-made parts BAR or Beretta M21? Fuckin-A they don't. Can't blame them. If you want the bottom to fall out of your investments, that's on you.