Stopped by Police, Gun Confiscation Question.

[JcBook47]

I know it is few and far in between when this happens, but I just read a thread about it in another section. As far as the sales database maintained by the PSP, if a firearm is not in there can the take it?

The reason I ask is because I am waiting on parts to finish a 1911 that I cut/milled the receiver from a 80% lower. There are no marks on this firearm at all. I would like to carry it after extensive test, shooting it a bunch, because it will be something I made and I take pride in that.

[steve_010]

Just my opinion on the subject:

First off, there are millions* of guns that are not in the PA sales database. A firearm that has been handed down through the generations won't be in it. A firearm that was made from an 80% frame/lower won't be in it. A firearm that was stolen won't be in it. And many other firearms won't be in it.

Second off, the police can do anything they want to do and it's up to you to sue them later if they are in the wrong.


*estimation

/edit I can't locate it right now but there have been other threads where it was suggested to not carry a gun that you would be upset over if it was confiscated and you couldn't get it back. Or was confiscated and then damaged...or lost...or destroyed (ended up in his/her personal collection).

[Remington788]

I would bet a lot of money on "it would be confiscated"
Once they go to run it against the Registry of Sale list, or the Stolen List or whatever shit they want to do, they are sure to notice the lack of markings or serial number. At that point, I think you would be in a world of shit. You may get out of that world later, but I expect it would be a real hassle.

[JcBook47]

Ahh the pride of creating something with your own hands being stomped on by the man

Thank you for the reply's. Maybe this will be my reason to build a second 1911. One for show, One for carrying.

[Remington788]

Ahh the pride of creating something with your own hands being stomped on by the man

Thank you for the reply's. Maybe this will be my reason to build a second 1911. One for show, One for carrying.

Nothing to do with pride of manufacture.
You would be carrying a firearm with no manufacturing marks, no serial number, no way of identifying it.
Under any circumstances that I can imagine, that would be a cause for concern. I think the first assumption would be that you ground off the marking, which probably does happen on occasion.

There is probably some way of serializing it yourself. I do not know what you could show to prove that it was your gun, manufactured by you. Someone else might, I have never made my own.

[alpacaheat]

Carrying should not be an issue. You can never sell it though, at least not without drawing some attention from the ATF. I've heard of people putting "NSN" for "no serial number" on the transfer form but I wouldn't recommend it.

Getting a unique SN engraved would be good idea to protect yourself legally and also allow a future transfer.



http://weaponsman.com/?p=9264

• Privately built weapons for personal use are not required to be marked. Most likely that unmarked carbine was one of these. They can’t be built for resale, but they can be legally resold — however, it’s a grey area, and ATF’s unwillingness to publish its past letter rulings and legal opinions makes any grey area a minefield. Therefore, most folks that advise you on how to legally build a gun for education and recreation advise you either that you never may sell it or that you may only sell it after a decent interval of enjoying it yourself, and only after marking it with a maker name and city and a serial number.

http://aresarmor.com/store/FAQ

Do I need to put serial numbers on the ar15-ar10-1911 firearms that I make?

A licensed Manufacturer has an agreement with the government to put serial numbers on the weapons they make. You as a private individual who is making a firearm for personal use and not for sale of distribution have no agreement with the government to serialize your firearm.

It is a good idea to mark your weapon somehow so that should it ever be stolen you have a way to identify it and report its loss to your local law enforcement.

Please check your local and state law.

Extensive read that includes laws and

http://pennlago.com/are-firearms-wit...mbers-illegal/

There’s another possible scenario in which there is no serial number, and that is in the case of a home build. As of late, there has been a 80% or 60% receiver complete craze. In these particular cases, the gun cannot be sold or transferred and must only be for the manufacturer’s own personal use. If it is a home build manufactured by yourself, using your own equipment, for your own personal use, no serial number is required.
Although not required, BATFE has stated: “ . . . we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27CFR478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.” http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/fire...echnology.html Again, this is simply a suggestion and not a legal requirement.

[alpacaheat]

ATF interprets "conspicuous" as meaning (among other things) "not covered up". This applies to both required serial numbers and other required markings. If the design of the gun precludes strict adherence to this, you need to apply to ATF for a marking variance.


Serial number MUST be on the frame or receiver. Serial numbers must be:

Quote
1. Unique to the importer, FFL manufacturer, or home maker (meaning, YOU have not used that number before on anything YOU imported, manufactured, or made).

2. Only use the standard 26 letter "Roman" alphabet (actually the ENGLISH alphabet -- "J" and "V" are not actually "Roman" letters, but are acceptable; umlauts and accents are not acceptable, Cyrillic and Sanskrit are right out) and 10-digit "Arabic" (again, technically it's the "European" version -- they won't accept actual Arabic numbers because they look different). Roman numerals (I, II, III, IV, etc.) are considered "letters", NOT "numbers".

3. Must use AT LEAST one number (cannot be ALL letters).

4. Must be at least 4 characters long.

5. Must be at least 1/16" tall and 0.003" deep.


All other markings must be on the frame, receiver, or barrel. The must be at least 0.003" deep -- but no height requirement exists. The totality of additional markings required are:

Quote
1. Name of FFL manufacturer, home maker, or FFL importer.

2. If imported, country of origin.

3. City/county (depending) and state of FFL manufacturer, home maker, or FFL importer. This is the location on the FFL, or the location where it was made if home made.

4. Caliber

5. Model (if manufacturer, importer, or maker so designates one).


These "required markings" (including serial numbers) are ONLY required of guns manufactured or imported by an FFL, NFA-restricted guns that have to be registered in the NFA Registry (including those home made on a Form 1), or home made guns that are subsequently transferred to another. NOTE -- the original maker of a non-NFA homebuilt gun that transfers it must mark it BEFORE he transfers it.

Source: http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T17698.html

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Such a taking of our firearm is clearly against the law. It is theft & Goverment oppression. As is clear in he law:

Good advice above.

Here's a newsletter published by the Municipal Police Officers' Educations and Training Commission (MPOETC) in December 2011 reminding local police forces that absence of a firearm from the Record of Sale database is not, in itself, grounds for confiscation of a firearm.



And as I indicated above, it's my impression that the search of your vehicle was illegal, even before we get to the question of the legality of the seizure of the firearms.

[cjcullom]

Maybe consider setting up a Trust and putting said piece in the trust after marking it as mentioned above. I personally would take the piece to the grave or leave the piece to a loved one thru the trust. Its an heirloom and should be passed on.

[Emptymag]

That's like asking if you "can" be arrested for open carry.