Don't load that in front of the officers......

[Bang]

the observation only valid if it's me personally involved, or do all the videos of encounters, and first-hand stories posted here by those who have been personally involved where it has happened suffice?

Good point. If the only valid observation is one in which one is personally involved, then all those kids going to college to learn what has been learned before by others is a waste.

But to get serious and on subject, I don't understand why LEO would feel unsafe if a person in their proximity has a loaded gun. It is illegal to shoot an officer.

[GunLawyer001]

If they were justified in removing the pistol from the person to begin with, wouldn't this be justification in possibly taking the incident that much further? Articulation is the police officer's friend, not yours.

As a practical matter, since when have cops required some actual justification for taking a gun away from a citizen during an encounter?

Cops seize guns without real justification, often enough that it's a problem for citizens who "do the right thing" and inform the officers that they have a licensed gun on them during a traffic stop. Sometimes, the officer just says "thanks for telling me, just don't pull it out now". But too often, the cop seizes it, sometime by reaching and grabbing it, other times by demanding that it be turned over. It gets unloaded on many occasions, without the citizen's safety being much in mind as the unfamiliar gun is manipulated. It frequently gets taken back to the car to run the serial number to see if it's stolen or "registered", which is an unlawful search if the seizure was unjustified. (See Arizona v Hicks, for example.)

The courts back up police, but the truth is that seizing a gun and unloading it for the duration of a traffic stop is NOT a justified seizure. There's no basis for the assumption that "we can disarm everybody we encounter, because some of them are dangerous." It would be equally true that some percentage of people encountered will be concealing contraband, but we don't extend the search rules to allow a search of everybody, not even after Terry.

That being said, I wouldn't re-load a pistol while the cops are still there, for the same reason that I don't display cash in front of gangbangers, or pet a strange dog while he's eating, or leave my doors unlocked. Because being "right" doesn't make you bulletproof, other people may do stupid things, and I have no interest in posthumously making my heirs wealthy.

[Grey Bearded One]

The reality of the world is that you MUST do whatever a government agent tells you to do. If you're walking down the street and he says, "Hey, come here," you must comply. If he says, "Give me a blow job," you must comply. If he says, "Don't load your gun," you must comply. It's the way the world works.

[Deleted]

As a practical matter, since when have cops required some actual justification for taking a gun away from a citizen during an encounter?

Cops seize guns without real justification, often enough that it's a problem for citizens who "do the right thing" and inform the officers that they have a licensed gun on them during a traffic stop. Sometimes, the officer just says "thanks for telling me, just don't pull it out now". But too often, the cop seizes it, sometime by reaching and grabbing it, other times by demanding that it be turned over. It gets unloaded on many occasions, without the citizen's safety being much in mind as the unfamiliar gun is manipulated. It frequently gets taken back to the car to run the serial number to see if it's stolen or "registered", which is an unlawful search if the seizure was unjustified. (See Arizona v Hicks, for example.)

The courts back up police, but the truth is that seizing a gun and unloading it for the duration of a traffic stop is NOT a justified seizure. There's no basis for the assumption that "we can disarm everybody we encounter, because some of them are dangerous." It would be equally true that some percentage of people encountered will be concealing contraband, but we don't extend the search rules to allow a search of everybody, not even after Terry.

That being said, I wouldn't re-load a pistol while the cops are still there, for the same reason that I don't display cash in front of gangbangers, or pet a strange dog while he's eating, or leave my doors unlocked. Because being "right" doesn't make you bulletproof, other people may do stupid things, and I have no interest in posthumously making my heirs wealthy.

Like Ranger... we roll a little different. Justification means just that here.

[ungawa]

The reality of the world is that you MUST do whatever a government agent tells you to do. If you're walking down the street and he says, "Hey, come here," you must comply. If he says, "Give me a blow job," you must comply. If he says, "Don't load your gun," you must comply. It's the way the world works.

No, it's the way America works. People have rights in many European countries, and presumably in other places as well.

[alpacaheat]

I'm having breakfast today and watching & re-watching the many OC videos on youtube......

Occasionally, a gun is taken during the encounter(officer safety). After then encounter, the gun is returned and the OCer instructed to "not load" the gun until officers leave.

I personally would announce in a loud clear voice that I am loading my weapon- DP NOT SHOOT ME and chamber it while pointing it down and standing it off from holster position.

Maybe it's me, but that command not to load pisses me off more than anything......

Thoughts?

Hope you enjoyed your last breakfast. Sounds like a sure way to die.

[Ranger P229]

Is the observation only valid if it's me personally involved, or do all the videos of encounters, and first-hand stories posted here by those who have been personally involved where it has happened suffice?

I think it's easy to use YouTube as a way to facilitate development of a highly skewed world view. If I watched videos all day made by people who seriously believe the world as we know it will end in the next few months, I may start to see that as a legitimate reality instead of looking around me at what is actually happening the my world, and the world of people I know. You could very easily watch a bunch of negative OC encounters online, form the opinion that cops are all pricks that have a problem with OC'ers, and that its "is against them", without ever having a single experience to validate that. You would be cherry picking a small amount of encounters that other people video tapes and making an assumption of that, with zero evidence to back it up. I think there are more than a few members here who do exactly that in reference to their feelings regarding LEO's.
Sure, YouTube is a great resource, but don't let it trick you into believing something.

[Grey Bearded One]

But to get serious and on subject, I don't understand why LEO would feel unsafe if a person in their proximity has a loaded gun. It is illegal to shoot an officer.

Well, the gun could decide to attack the police officer on its own.

[bogey1]

Hope you enjoyed your last breakfast. Sounds like a sure way to die.

Why?

[knight0334]

We've all seen the videos.. An officer yells "GUN!", they all start shooting(mob mentality). Do you feel lucky? ...and officer tells you not to load the gun, then you go and do it - what the fuck do you think THEY are going to think?

Sometimes you're just best off complying. Waiting for them to leave really doesn't expose you to the possibility of harm to yourself by a 3rd party(they are there too). It only takes a couple moment to reload anyways.