Negative Encounter at the Kutztown Giant

[Lexington]

After years of non-encounters and positive encounters, here's a negative one for the books. Thought I'd post it here for the sake of any open carriers in the area to be aware of an anti-gun individual who may or may not be mentally unstable, but was certainly belligerent and authoritarian. This was not anyone who worked at Giant, and not anyone I've seen there before, though that doesn't mean he's not a regular.

Yesterday about 4:45 PM I pulled in to the parking lot of the Giant just outside of Kutztown for a milk and egg run. Placed was mobbed with college students, but I was able to get what I needed and get over to the self-checkout lanes without too much delay. Paid for my stuff, then pushed my basket to the left, towards the far doors I'd come in through near the frozen section, for anyone who's been there.

Standing against the wall facing the self-checkout lane was a caucasoid male in probably his mid-to-late 50s (Unless he's led a really hard life to this point) with short gray hair and a short gray beard wearing what could be described as business casual clothes or country club attire, polo shirt and pants. He was a bit taller than me, but not very muscular unless he had a wiry build. Didn't think much of him until I turned left and headed for the doors. This exposed my strong side to him, and I heard him say out loud, "What in the world?" I braced myself, and moved more to the right to keep him away from my sidearm.

He comes up on my left side and the conversation proceeds thus, as best I can remember it: (Note that the self-censors are mine. He was quite colorful and unimaginative in his language)

Him: What are you doing with a gun?!
Me: It's my right to carry it. (I normally don't open with this kind of a blunt statement, but the tone he had was one of absolute derision, so there we are)
Him: Is it?
Me: Pennsylvania's an open carry state.
Him: Is it?
Me: Yes, sir, it is.
Him: So, why are you carrying a gun and frightening all these people?
Me: No one else seems frightened to me.
Him: Oh, they are. They're just too afraid to tell you because you have a F-ing gun.
Me: Well-
Him: What are you afraid of, carrying a gun around like that? I don't think you should carry that.
*Stepping out the door into the parking lot now*
Me: Well, that's your right to feel that way.
Him: Oh, I know it's my right. So, what are you afraid of that you need to carry a gun?
Me: I'm not afraid. That's not why-
Him: Then why do you have a F-ing gun? You could kill somebody with that, that you don't mean to! Guns kill people!
(At this point he's getting really agitated and almost shouting)
Me: You could do the same with your fists or your-
Him: Oh, don't F-ing give me that! I don't want to hear that F-ing-*Stomps off a bit, then whirls around and comes back* Put that F-ing gun away right now!
Me: No.
Him: Don't you think there are enough guns in America? Oh, you F-ing-
(I don't recall anything he said after that. He spun around and stalked off to his jacked-up pick up truck, levered himself into it, and sped off, flipping me off and shouting at me through the side window).

Looking back on it, I should've done a few things:

1. Stopped moving once he got really irate and shifted into a more defensive stance. I didn't get the feeling he was the type to do more than bluster, but then he was working himself up into a pretty good rage by the end, so who knows what could've been next? A lesson learned.

2. This feeds in to 1, but I should've kept him well away from my strong side. That was easy in the store because of the wall, but after we got outside the store he shifted over to my right side, ostensibly because that was where his truck ultimately was, but I didn't know that at the time. This was the point I should've stopped and let him say his piece in a stationary position, bladed away from him to make it difficult for him to do anything physical. Instead I didn't stop moving until he got to the point of commanding me to get rid of my sidearm. Then he became really threatening, but I should've been on the defensive well before that. I was mentally defensive, and he couldn't have easily reached the sidearm because of the position of my arm, but I still wasn't in the best of positions to react if it had come down to it.

3. Gotten his tag number. By that point my adrenaline was going a bit and I was just glad to see him driving away. I did have the sense to keep an eye on him until he had completely turned out of the parking lot, to the right heading back towards Kutztown or the college or wherever he was heading.

4. Recorded him. This is something I should've learned from reading about many incidents here, but my phone wasn't set up to easily switch to audio recording. It is now, and should I encounter him or another like him again that will be the case, with a polite warning to them that it's happening.

One thing I think I did right was not raise my voice alongside him. I kept my voice level and didn't try to shout over him whenever he interrupted me. Once that happened I just let him spew whatever nonsense he was going on about since it was obvious he didn't care what I had to say. If you have to interrupt someone repeatedly in order to win an argument, you've already lost. I didn't want to get pulled down to his level. Plus, it made him look very unhinged to those watching, and there were more than a few in the parking lot who kept an eye on him as he sped off without so much as a glance at me.

Another thing was keeping my hands free. I was still pushing one of those mini-carts, so it would've been easy to raise or drop my hands as the situation warranted. Even when I'm carrying grocery bags I keep my right hand free, so that's pretty ingrained in me.

It's interesting how belligerent the man was for someone who was supposedly afraid for his life. I must be dressing too professionally for my own good.

Anyway, that's all she wrote! Learned some valuable lessons, no one was hurt, and no one went to jail, so it wasn't a complete negative. Live, learn, adapt and do better.

[BenFoo]

Cant say I have ever seen such an individual sulking about the Kutztown Giant. Perhaps it was one of the recently college students parents from "not our area".

[jthrelf]

Wow, what a psycho. I could never imagine doing that to another person, let alone an armed stranger.

I think you handled it well overall, and had a good after action review with yourself.

[bogey1]

I call BS on this story.. College kids cant afford to shop at giant After the: What are you doing with that gun question? I would have looked at him, and turned and walked away.
Its nobodies business but your own.
The guy is probably pissed because hes to unstable to have one legally.

[MARINE DIVISION TWO]

Cant say I have experienced any issue as you have described,and cant say it would not happen but a swift kick to the ass statement,If GOD forbid anything does happen I would be the safest person around for your saftey and mine ! JMO/MDT

[wa3ra]

"Ever hear of the constitution, motherfu....?"

[DennisH82]

I can't fault the OP these nut jobs are all over, I wouldn't have continued the conversation with him once he established he wasn't listening to replies. I would have also activated my digital recorder just in case. These asshats aren't worth the effort or aggravation to have a conservationist with.

[unclejumbo]

Him: What are you doing with a gun?!

Cops are too heavy to carry...

[DennisH82]

Him: What are you doing with a gun?!

Cops are too heavy to carry...

Must be all those doughnuts

[philadelphia patriot]

I carry to be safe from these hoplophobic assholes.