Good penn live articles, citing FOAC

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Army to recruiters: Regard armed civilians outside recruiting centers as threat

The Army is telling recruiters to regard armed civilians gathering to guard military recruiting centers as a security threat, according to Stars and Stripes.

In the wake of last week's deadly shooting at a military recruiting station in Tennessee, civilians, many of them former military personnel, have taken it upon themselves to stand guard over military recruiting centers across the country.

Several heavily armed men took up posts outside the military recruiting center near the Park City Mall in Lancaster this week, and the York Daily Record recently reported on a similar effort taking place at a recruiting center in Manchester Township, York County.

Scott Unangst, who described himself as ex-military, was one of those guarding the Lancaster center Friday, armed with a handgun and a knife.

"I'm here because recruiters have wives and children who are in fear for their father's lives or their wive's lives," Unangst said.

The appearance of the civilian guards follows the shooting last Thursday at a military recruiting center in Chattanooga, Tenn., that left five service members dead. Many, including some Pennsylvania lawmakers, have expressed concern that recruiters and other military personnel are prohibited from carrying weapons while off military bases.

According to Stars and Stripes, a U.S. Army Recruiting Command policy letter issued Monday advises soldiers to avoid anyone standing outside the recruiting centers attempting to offer protection and report such people to local law enforcement and the commend if they feel threatened.

Kim Stolfer, president of the Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Against Crime, explained that the civilian watchmen are all within their legal rights.

"This is Americans saying we are tired of our military being left defenseless against threats," he said. "It's time for Americans to face the fact we are fighting people who use our freedoms against us. American citizens many of them veterans are tired of watching men and women being killed in uniform."

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Lawmakers don't want unarmed recruiters to be sitting ducks

Last week's killing of five military personnel at two installations in Tennessee sparked state lawmakers to call on Gov. Tom Wolf to allow Pennsylvania National Guard recruiters and personnel when off base to arm themselves in the performance of their duties.

A letter from Rep. Steve Barrar, R-Delaware, and more than 100 Republican and Democratic House members will be sent to Wolf on Thursday urging him to issue an executive order to allow the Guardsmen to carry a military-issued sidearm.

Or Barrar said as an option, he could request Adjutant General Jim Joseph to authorize recruiters to carry firearms as eligible as part of the "uniform of the day" practices and policies.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...gard_arme.html

"I don't' know any reason why the governor wouldn't do this," Barrar said. "If we put them in uniform, we should give them the ability to protect themselves."

Wolf spokesman Jeff Sheridan said the governor shares the lawmakers' concerns about the safety of the military members and recruiters in light of the violent acts that played out in Chattanooga last week.

"He will take Representative Barrar's letter and other input from the Legislature under consideration as he consults with General Joseph, other leaders from the National Guard, law enforcement and the Office of General Counsel," Sheridan said.

Barrar said he'd rather see trained soldiers have the ability to defend themselves than what is happening at recruiting centers in York and Scranton as well as in other states where private militia members are showing up to protect recruiters.

Outside a Columbus, Ohio, recruiting center, members of the Ohio branch of the "3 Percent Irregulars" militia have been standing guard since Friday, according to Associated Press reports.

"We're here to serve and protect," said Clint Janney, wearing a Taurus 9 mm handgun in a parking lot outside that recruiting center on Tuesday. "What the government won't do, we will do."

Elsewhere, veterans as well as other volunteer militias and posses are stepping up to protect recruiters. Governors in at least a half-dozen states have authorized National Guardsmen to take up arms to protect recruiting offices and installations.

Two states, Michigan and Kentucky, have authorized their guardsmen to carry personal weapons for protection, said Major Edward Shank, public affairs officer for the Pennsylvania National Guard and its 20,000 members.

"We've not decided to do that," he said. "But we're kicking around different ideas to help protect the soldiers" that go beyond the security measures they already have in place.

But Shank added there's a lot of things to consider in deciding whether to move forward with arming recruiters and other personnel.

"Who's to say us being armed isn't more dangerous than not being armed," he said. "We have to consider all safety factors and decisions that are made are going to err on the side of the safety of soldiers."

Barrar said as early as Monday, House members began contacting him in his capacity as chairman of the House Emergency Preparedness and Veterans Affairs Committee asking if there were any measures the state could take to better protect Guardsmen when they are off base and unarmed.

"They sounded frustrated and were hearing it from their constituents. They want our military people in the commonwealth to be able to defend themselves," Barrar said.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Growing number of armed civilians guard military recruiting stations

In the wake of last week's deadly shooting at a military recruiting station in Tennessee, former military personnel and first responders have taken positions armed with semi-automatic rifles and guns to watch over military recruiting stations at a growing number of cities and towns across the country.

From Colorado Springs, Colorado, to Columbus, Ohio to places in Alabama, Texas and Virginia, heavily armed ex-military personnel this week began to take their places outside gun-free military recruiting stations to protect the men and women inside those stations, who by federal law, are prohibited from carry weapons.

In the midstate, on Monday, about four heavily armed men took up posts outside a outside a military recruiting station near Park City Mall in Lancaster, LancasterOnline reported.

The Lancaster group of watchmen belongs to Oath Keepers, the news outlet reported. Oath Keepers describes itself as non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, police, and first responders who pledge to fulfill the oath all military and police take to "defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

Calls to the president of the state chapter of Oath Keepers were not immediately returned.

"We swore an oath when we went into the military. And that's for life," U.S. Army veteran Scott Unangst told LancasterOnline. "We're standing guard for our brothers."

The appearance of the civilian guards comes in the wake of last Thursday's shooting spree at a military recruiting station in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The shooting left five service members — four Marines and a sailor — dead.

"This is Americans saying we are tired of our military being left defenseless against threats." - Kim Stolfer
The gunman -- Mohammad Youssef Abdulazeez, 24, a native of Kuwait who had lived in Tennessee for most of his life -- was shot dead by police.

Kim Stolfer, president of the Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Against Crime, explained that the civilian watchmen are all within their legal rights.

"This is Americans saying we are tired of our military being left defenseless against threats," he said. "It's time for Americans to face the fact we are fighting people who use our freedoms against us. American citizens many of them veterans are tired of watching men and women being killed in uniform."

Stolfer, a former Marine, said it was unconscionable that upper echelon military leaders are considering assigning security guards to watch over military recruiting stations instead of military personnel.

"A lot of places are left defenseless and wide open to people," he said. "If you have no gun sign on the door, I'm pretty sure the bad guy isn't going to follow that."

In the wake of the Tennessee shooting, Gen. Mark Milley, the general officer nominated to be the next Army chief of staff, said the service should "seriously consider" arming recruiters "under certain conditions."

Defense Secretary Ash Carter has also ordered a full review of facility security policies.

In addition, about a half dozen governors have pre-empted the Pentagon's assessment, allowing National Guard personnel to carry weapons on bases and in recruiting stations. Pennsylvania is not among that group.

While the sight of heavily armed men brandishing semi-automatic weapons at a shopping mall may appear dramatic and questionable, Stolfer explained that in Pennsylvania they are within their legal rights.

Pennsylvania gun law allows individuals to transport long firearms (rifles, etc) unloaded to their destination, where they can then load them. In the case of a handgun, however, state law requires gun owners to have a license to carry and transport the handgun, even if it's unloaded.

Stolfer bemoans the fact that Israeli military personnel are permitted to be fully armed in public.

"Here in America, we don't trust the very people who defend our nation," he said. "It irritates me to no end. What you have here is our military members are left defenseless by our policies."

That policy came into being in 1992 when the Department of Defense issued a directive limiting firearms to military personnel who held certain jobs.

In recent years, approximately 10 people have been killed in shootings at military installations.

"We have a problem here that's not being addressed," Stolfer said.

While mall owners have the right to declare their private property gun-free zones, a federal law permitting military personnel from carrying weapons at a recruiting center would override that right.

But already, the armed civilian watchmen have come up against trouble.

In Lancaster, Ohio, on Thursday afternoon, civilian guards who had been guarding a military recruitment center were ordered off a shopping mall property after one of them accidentally discharged his rifle, The Columbus Dispatch reported.

No one was injured. One of the civilian guards was charged with a misdemeanor after he accidentally fired his AR-15 rifle.

The armed civilians had been guarding the center since Monday.

Stolfer said members of the public should not be intimidated by the sight of the armed civilians near the Park City Mall center.

"I would say you are safer there are that moment than you are at parking lot at any other mall," he said.

[ChemicalReaper]

"Who's to say us being armed isn't more dangerous than not being armed," he said. "We have to consider all safety factors and decisions that are made are going to err on the side of the safety of soldiers."

So... you don't even trust the people under your command with firearms? Now that's inspirational leadership from the front right there!

[PAMedic=F|A=]

So... you don't even trust the people under your command with firearms? Now that's inspirational leadership from the front right there!

Yes, well the chain of command is responsible for the training. So how about we skip the 10th all men are rapists & only men rape briefs for the month.


Sorry about the formatting. My phone was messed up.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Ak now requires all active guard personal to carry M9s, all guardsmen authorized private weapons.

[alpacaheat]

It will be interesting listening to Wolf explain why he vetoed it.