NY resident selling pistol to PA FFL?

[EscapeFromNY]

New guy here. A little backstory before my question: I was living down south in free America for a few years, of course bought some guns here and there, and then moved back to NY (yeah, crazy, I know). NYS requires a permit to even own/possess a pistol. Being that I didnt (and still dont) have one, I left my pistols and a few guns that are not NYS compliant, with a friend in PA, until I moved back out of NY. Thats not looking like its gonna happen anytime soon, so here I am.

Can I, a New Yorker with no NY pistol permit, drive to PA to my friends house, pick up the pistol(s) I want to sell, drive to a PA FFL and sell him my pistols? Or would I need to have a NY permit, since Im a NY resident and would be giving my NY drivers license as ID?

Id love to hear info from everyone, but specifically any PA FFLs if there are any here, so I can be sure that everything is legal.

[rdgshooter]

I will start out with saying I am not an FFL. This is just from personal experience. I spent 3 years living at Drum. At one point I made a deal to sell a bolt action to a gentleman in VA. As I was already planning on coming down to PA at the time I told him I could meet him at his FFL for the transfer instead of however long it would take UPS to deliver it. Spoke with his FFL the next day to make sure everything was going to be good. I was asked if I still had my PA DL as I was active duty or if I had switched to a NY DL. He flat out told me if I had had a NY DL he would not touch the transfer in person because of NYS laws and that was on a bolt gun.

I also know most FFL dealers are skeptical of dealing with NYS residents because of all the stings Bloomburg has pulled over the years. Your best bet is going to be to call FFLs in the area of your friends house and speak with them personally but don't be surprised if they won't because of NYS gun laws.

[JenniferG]

I don't agree with having to get the government's permission to buy or sell a firearm and then having it registered in a database.

[EscapeFromNY]

I will start out with saying I am not an FFL. This is just from personal experience. I spent 3 years living at Drum. At one point I made a deal to sell a bolt action to a gentleman in VA. As I was already planning on coming down to PA at the time I told him I could meet him at his FFL for the transfer instead of however long it would take UPS to deliver it. Spoke with his FFL the next day to make sure everything was going to be good. I was asked if I still had my PA DL as I was active duty or if I had switched to a NY DL. He flat out told me if I had had a NY DL he would not touch the transfer in person because of NYS laws and that was on a bolt gun.

I also know most FFL dealers are skeptical of dealing with NYS residents because of all the stings Bloomburg has pulled over the years. Your best bet is going to be to call FFLs in the area of your friends house and speak with them personally but don't be surprised if they won't because of NYS gun laws.

Thats not sounding good for me, if that FFL wouldnt even touch a transfer on a bolt action. :-(

Thanks for the info, though. Much appreciated.

[EscapeFromNY]

I don't agree with having to get the government's permission to buy or sell a firearm and then having it registered in a database.

Neither do I. Its BS. But I gotta deal with it until I can get back out of NY, whenever that may be.

[Gun]

I was asked if I still had my PA DL as I was active duty or if I had switched to a NY DL. He flat out told me if I had had a NY DL he would not touch the transfer in person because of NYS laws and that was on a bolt gun.

If this were a long gun, this should not have been a problem, except if the possession of the long gun was from NYC, being that it would be registered.



One problem could occur if the OP were able to find an FFL in PA to do the transfer, the recipient was denied. The FFL would then have to ship the handgun(s) back to a NYS FFL to transfer back to the seller.

The other problem is the FFL might be leery of the origin of the handgun(s), whether the guns were indeed contraband. IANAL.

[WCMG]

... Your best bet is going to be to call FFLs in the area of your friends house and speak with them personally...

Good answer. Use GunBroker.com to find an FFL near the buyer and call each one, explain exactly the situation and you should be able to find one within 5 calls or so to handle this.

I just did a pistol transfer from an Ohio resident to a PA resident last week. They swapped a S&W 44Mag for a AK with the Ohio resident received the rifle (which I can transfer to them since it's a long gun) and the PA resident received the handgun. They both met me at the shop with their firearms and we did the transfers. Some FFL's do care how a firearm arrives because the ATF laws are vague with one section stating that only DOJ approved shipping companies can deliver firearms while another section states that civilians can transport their personal firearms across state lines (hence deliver them to an FFL). I wouldn't fault any FFL for refusing this type of transfer, the ATF IOI inspectors are who we have to answer too and you will find they rarely give the same answer on questions like this.

[EscapeFromNY]

One problem could occur if the OP were able to find an FFL in PA to do the transfer, the recipient was denied. The FFL would then have to ship the handgun(s) back to a NYS FFL to transfer back to the seller.

The other problem is the FFL might be leery of the origin of the handgun(s), whether the guns were indeed contraband. IANAL.

Just to clarify, I'm not looking to have the FFL transfer the pistol(s) to a buyer. Just looking to sell to the FFL himself.

As for the origins of the pistols, I am the original owner from the originating 4473s on everything I'd be wanting to sell (and FWIW, none of them were purchased in NY). I was under the impression that places like gunshops and pawn shops had ways of running serials on guns, to make sure they're not stolen? I know they don't have access to NCIC, but I thought they could call it in to the local PD or something. Maybe I'm misremembering, though.

[EscapeFromNY]

Good answer. Use GunBroker.com to find an FFL near the buyer and call each one, explain exactly the situation and you should be able to find one within 5 calls or so to handle this.

I just did a pistol transfer from an Ohio resident to a PA resident last week. They swapped a S&W 44Mag for a AK with the Ohio resident received the rifle (which I can transfer to them since it's a long gun) and the PA resident received the handgun. They both met me at the shop with their firearms and we did the transfers. Some FFL's do care how a firearm arrives because the ATF laws are vague with one section stating that only DOJ approved shipping companies can deliver firearms while another section states that civilians can transport their personal firearms across state lines (hence deliver them to an FFL). I wouldn't fault any FFL for refusing this type of transfer, the ATF IOI inspectors are who we have to answer too and you will find they rarely give the same answer on questions like this.

Yeah, I guess I will just start calling around and see what they say. And I wouldn't blame them for refusing, either. It sounds like a grey area, unfortunately.

[tl_3237]

New guy here. A little backstory before my question: I was living down south in free America for a few years, of course bought some guns here and there, and then moved back to NY (yeah, crazy, I know). NYS requires a permit to even own/possess a pistol. Being that I didnt (and still dont) have one, I left my pistols and a few guns that are not NYS compliant, with a friend in PA, until I moved back out of NY. Thats not looking like its gonna happen anytime soon, so here I am.

Can I, a New Yorker with no NY pistol permit, drive to PA to my friends house, pick up the pistol(s) I want to sell, drive to a PA FFL and sell him my pistols? Or would I need to have a NY permit, since Im a NY resident and would be giving my NY drivers license as ID?

Id love to hear info from everyone, but specifically any PA FFLs if there are any here, so I can be sure that everything is legal.

I appreciate that you are inquiring about direct sale to an FFL and ensuring that “everything is legal”.

As I understand it you left several pistols and long arms with a friend in Pennsylvania while you were a resident of a state “down south” before moving to NY – I presume this means you were and are a non-Pennsylvania resident. Unless you took extraordinary steps to assure that your Pennsylvania friend did not have access to the firearms, such as placing them in a substantial enclosure (ex. a safe), you violated Federal law (18 USC 922(a)(5)) as well as potentially Pennsylvania law if your Pennsylvania friend did not possess an LTCF (18 PA CS 6115).

Fast-forward to your inquiry, I’m unaware of any impediment for you to sell a firearm directly to an FFL in Pennsylvania regardless of your residency nor would such an FFL be required to apply New York law to the transaction. I say this because there is no non-licensee buyer involved so many of the Federal transfer rules would not apply. You further indicate that you can prove your ownership of the firearms – something that the buying FFL may insist. I’m not clear how you have a copy of the 4473s because, at least a Pennsylvania, they’re not provided the buyer by the FFL – did the FFL make a copy for you?

With respect to your “sales” trip you should consider that, having retrieved the firearms from your Pennsylvania friend (legality unclear), you have few options other than the direct FFL sale. Best you make pre-arrangements because, should the sale fail, you have no way of divesting yourself of possession of the firearms in that you cannot return home with them without violating New York law and you certainly cannot return them to your friend, again assuming you do not take extraordinary measures to prevent his access/possession, without violating the Federal and potentially the Pennsylvania laws previously cited.