CC - what is considered a school ?

[No+Vice]

For kids gatherings outside of school grounds (summer camp drop offs/pick ups, karate lessons, YMCA swim meets or township grounds baseball/t-ball/soccer meets, parent meets, charity/raffles et.al.,) are these considered to be school areas/zones ?

Info for "school zone prohibited from CC" in this thread : http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...nsylvania.html

Traditionally a "school" could be a place of learning that is structured around K-12 concept (regardless whether public or private) and would like to determine if legally OK to CC in places of kids learning but outside of the K-12 facilities (events on public/charter school grounds automatically illegal anyways).

[God's Country]

If the event is not on school property, or I believe a school sanctioned event such as a field trip, you should be fine.

[tl_3237]

For kids gatherings outside of school grounds (summer camp drop offs/pick ups, karate lessons, YMCA swim meets or township grounds baseball/t-ball/soccer meets, parent meets, charity/raffles et.al.,) are these considered to be school areas/zones ?

Info for "school zone prohibited from CC" in this thread : http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...nsylvania.html

Traditionally a "school" could be a place of learning that is structured around K-12 concept (regardless whether public or private) and would like to determine if legally OK to CC in places of kids learning but outside of the K-12 facilities (events on public/charter school grounds automatically illegal anyways).

The specifics of the scope of the Commonwealth proscription:

18 Pa CS 912
(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.

Limited to these places
of these institutions.

[No+Vice]

Thanks ! The part where it says "licensed" and "parochial" does seem to categorize very specifically.

[Democrat Gun Owner]

I know of a teacher who had a gun in her car everyday when she went to teach. The administration found out she kept said gun in her car. One morning, she was met at the high school door by the principal and the school resource officer. She was asked to consent to a search of her car. She agreed to the search...dumb, yes, but she did. The police obviously found the gun. She did have a PA LTCF and rightfully claimed it was for self defense. The DA's office refused to press charges against the desires of the district' sad ministration.

I'm guessing the other side is also fearful of the possible outcome of a test case to the "other lawful purpose" language in the law.

18 Pa.C.S. § 912
(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.

I still don't have an interest in my becoming that guinea pig either, but from my example, it seems as if there are those in the criminal justice system who want to avoid the test case as well.

[No+Vice]

I'm guessing the other side is also fearful of the possible outcome of a test case to the "other lawful purpose" language in the law.
...
I still don't have an interest in my becoming that guinea pig either, but from my example, it seems as if there are those in the criminal justice system who want to avoid the test case as well.

You make very valid points. Thanks.

[HiredGoon]

I know of a teacher who had a gun in her car everyday when she went to teach. The administration found out she kept said gun in her car. One morning, she was met at the high school door by the principal and the school resource officer. She was asked to consent to a search of her car. She agreed to the search...dumb, yes, but she did. The police obviously found the gun. She did have a PA LTCF and rightfully claimed it was for self defense. The DA's office refused to press charges against the desires of the district' sad ministration.
.

One of the mistakes she made was telling somebody that she had a gun in the car

[No+Vice]

2b. Within 1000ft of a school unless you have a license/permit issued by the state in which the school is located - US Title 18, Part I, Chapter 44, Subsection 922(q)

So the above is a US Federal law and not a PA Law.

Hypothetically speaking - if traveling in a vehicle (point A to point B) and it just so happens that the path passes right by a school (deliberate example of where it is now within 1000ft). Further, stopped by LE for some obscure and irrelevant reason. During said stop the Concealed Firearm comes to light along and the LTCF is presented as well. At that point, have any laws been broken ?

Given the auto is not school property, but the road on which stopped or the ground on which person may be asked to step out and stand on could be considered "inside or part of" school property ?

I ask this because I was at a laundromat recently and waiting in the strip-mall parking lot - I turn around and stop mid-whistle - coz there it is - a school right next to it (within 1000ft. - I had not noticed before) with a baseball game going on right at that moment. IANAL, but why remain ignorant since we all know that ignorance is never an excuse - hence this discussion point.

My apologies if this was already covered elsewhere or if the answer should be obvious etc.

[R L Suehr]

2b. Within 1000ft of a school unless you have a license/permit issued by the state in which the school is located - US Title 18, Part I, Chapter 44, Subsection 922(q)

So the above is a US Federal law and not a PA Law.

Hypothetically speaking - if traveling in a vehicle (point A to point B) and it just so happens that the path passes right by a school (deliberate example of where it is now within 1000ft). Further, stopped by LE for some obscure and irrelevant reason. During said stop the Concealed Firearm comes to light along and the LTCF is presented as well. At that point, have any laws been broken ?

Given the auto is not school property, but the road on which stopped or the ground on which person may be asked to step out and stand on could be considered "inside or part of" school property ?

I ask this because I was at a laundromat recently and waiting in the strip-mall parking lot - I turn around and stop mid-whistle - coz there it is - a school right next to it (within 1000ft. - I had not noticed before) with a baseball game going on right at that moment. IANAL, but why remain ignorant since we all know that ignorance is never an excuse - hence this discussion point.

My apologies if this was already covered elsewhere or if the answer should be obvious etc.

In your example you would be on the laundromat's/strip malls property. You would be covered in the 1000ft safety zone by your LTCF. There is a difference between actual "school property" and the safety zone discussed in the statute you sited. 922 has a specific exemption for license holders within the 1000ft safety zone.

§ 912. Possession of weapon on school property.
(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon"
in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime),
"weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be
limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-
chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool,
instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily
injury.
(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the
first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on
the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to
or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational
institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed
by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary
parochial school.
(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is
possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised
school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful
purpose.

PA 912 mentions Buildings or grounds of a school. The parking lot you described wouldn't be on the physical "school grounds" so you would be fine.