"Shooters’ places of assembly or target practice"

[nataliator]

off topic a bit - but I live in Norristown and am always looking for range friends/place to go and shoot so if you do have a spot let me know!

[jerkin]

http://forum.pafoa.org/1871011-post-12.html

I read the post and though infuriating I still don't see where that is proof that it is illegal to stop somewhere while transporting a firearm under one of the exceptions. Yes, the gentleman was charged but there was never a decision in the case as he took a plea. If he had fought it in court and lost then I would agree.

BTW, I don't condone running around with a firearm in your vehicle without having a license to carry any more than I would recommend carrying your firearm into your child's school to see if self defense is an exception to the law banning firearms in schools.

I will agree that stopping while transporting under an exception is a gray area and should probably be avoided but I do not agree that it is blatantly illegal based on what I have seen and read. I have a ltcf so I won't be anyone's guinea pig and will continue to warn people of the potential hazard.

[ungawa]

Get your LTCF. It's $20 and lasts 5 years. Philly will get it to you in about 45 days.

[WhiteFeather]

I read the post and though infuriating I still don't see where that is proof that it is illegal to stop somewhere while transporting a firearm under one of the exceptions. Yes, the gentleman was charged but there was never a decision in the case as he took a plea. If he had fought it in court and lost then I would agree.

BTW, I don't condone running around with a firearm in your vehicle without having a license to carry any more than I would recommend carrying your firearm into your child's school to see if self defense is an exception to the law banning firearms in schools.

I will agree that stopping while transporting under an exception is a gray area and should probably be avoided but I do not agree that it is blatantly illegal based on what I have seen and read. I have a ltcf so I won't be anyone's guinea pig and will continue to warn people of the potential hazard.

If you want it the answers is already in your PM all you got to do be is willing to turn that key to find out

There is "no grey area" for residents in PA, there is NO exception provided in the law for stopping between the places that are listed as exceptions in the law for transporting an unloaded firearm to and from those specific locations.


GO Read the HB 718 thread !


HB 718 – Right to Transport Firearms Rep Krieger 2015-2016 legislative effort
http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-...ve-effort.html

[jerkin]

If you want it the answers is already in your PM all you got to do be is willing to turn that key to find out

There is "no grey area" for residents in PA, there is NO exception provided in the law for stopping between the places that are listed as exceptions in the law for transporting an unloaded firearm to and from those specific locations.


GO Read the HB 718 thread !


HB 718 – Right to Transport Firearms Rep Krieger 2015-2016 legislative effort
http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-...ve-effort.html

For the record so that everyone knows we are on the same side, I support HB 718 and think it would do good to clarify the law. Now with that being said...

I have read the HB 718 thread as you asked and still see no proof that stopping to get fuel on the way home from the range is a criminal act. I see where Rep Krieger says it is but without providing a reason why and I see where you stated this: "the way the courts have interpreted the existing law is total unreasonable and unacceptable." but without showing a case where the courts have interpreted the existing law.

I also read the thread that you pm'd me but unless I missed something the guy was convicted of transporting a firearm in the trunk but the judge overturned the jury's decision so I'm not sure how that is applicable.

I am not stating that it is legal, only saying that I've never seen proof that it was illegal. What I'm looking for is not an opinion but either a case where someone was found guilty of or a judge interpreted that stopping for fuel or something similar while transporting a firearm under one of the exceptions is illegal.

[tl_3237]

It's Pennsylvania case law. I remember reading of a case where the shooter stopped for dinner on the way home, and he was convicted of unlicensed transport, and the conviction was upheld on appeal. The premise being that it was a trip from the range to the restaurant, and not covered by the exception.

Note that a conviction is AT LEAST a 1st degree misdemeanor, and could be a felony, and either conviction is a Federal lifetime prohibitor to all gun ownership.

Get an LTCF. It's cheaper than talking to a defense lawyer for 8 minutes.

FWIW I have been unable to come up with the actual case as alluded -- anyone??

--------------------

As to my personal opinion regarding stops:

I’ve always looked at the issue of ‘stops’ as being allowed provided they are necessary parts of the trip. Since the legislature clearly provided for trips to/from the range they also tacitly allowed for those necessities that are an ‘inherent part’ of a trip. Such stops as fuel, bathroom, food, repairs, even lodging may be allowable providing the totality of circumstances support their inherence to the travel.

With that said, justification for those ‘stops’ require substantiation by the person claiming the range transport exemption and a judgment call by the trier-of-facts whether they concur with the ‘necessity’ of the ‘stops’.

So if you are on a relatively direct route to/from a range and you’re low on gas, get caught short by nature, need food, breakdown repairs, even lodging overnight then those ‘stops’ MAY well be allowed. Again its a judgment call but where the line is drawn is not defined. Some disqualifiers are obvious: going 50 miles off route for your favorite restaurant, stopping at a restaurant only a few miles from home, staying overnight at Uncle Sids when the range is in reasonable commuting distance from home, etc.

As Exbiker points out, a trip from Chester to Erie is considerable (400 miles) and it would be unreasonable to assume that it can be made without ‘stops’. Even longer trips of up to 650 miles are possible to conjure if one includes residents of contiguous states traveling to a match who have to rely of the exception while transporting in Pa. These longer trips may indeed necessitate overnights and, IMO, would still be in compliance with the 6106(b)(4) exception.

Guess the bottom line is to consider how confident you would be that you could convince a cop, DA, judge, and/or jury that the 'stop' you're about to make is intrinsic to your range trip and then proceed accordingly.