PSA: Please read if you own a Winchester Safe . . .

[Justin///M]

This lock is still going strong for me.

http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=287753

[Villanovan1]

Check your PM's, I'll help as best I can.

It’s 3:30 am (I’m on the west coast) I’m moving tomorrow and my Winchester safe failed right when I was about to empty it for a local move. My battery was bad. But after I put in a new battery it still says my code is bad. Hopefully my movers will buy my story that safe only has empty boxes (all of the guns are in cases). Any help on opening it would be greatly appreciated. It’s going to the dump as I open it. Thanks.

[BionicMan]

It’s 3:30 am (I’m on the west coast) I’m moving tomorrow and my Winchester safe failed right when I was about to empty it for a local move. My battery was bad. But after I put in a new battery it still says my code is bad. Hopefully my movers will buy my story that safe only has empty boxes (all of the guns are in cases). Any help on opening it would be greatly appreciated. It’s going to the dump as I open it. Thanks.

Check your PM's.

[Chalder314]

I felt compelled to pass this info along to others that may own this safe . . .

Almost 3 years ago I purchased this 24 gun Winchester safe from Tractor Supply:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...4-gun-capacity

The electronic lock on this safe worked flawlessly for almost 2.5 years and then I started having to enter the correct code twice almost every time in order to gain access. After about a month of needing to enter it twice it started requiring the code 3 times. At this point I realized there was an issue and I should contact Winchester. Unfortunately I put it on the back burner until the lock would no longer accept our code at all. I replaced the battery thinking that was the issue, but it wasn't. We continued to enter the correct code sporadically for 5 days until we finally got lucky and it opened for us. And VERY lucky we were, as there are countless stories out there of owners with this safe never getting back in and having to have it drilled. (and then replaced)

Once we got it open I called Winchester support first and they immediately said that it was out of warranty and that my only recourse was to call a locksmith. I called a local safe locksmith and asked if he could swap out the electronic lock with a manual one. He said it was no problem, came and looked at it, and told me that it would likely be around $380, but that he would get back to me in 24-48 hours with specifics. After 72 hours of nothing I called him and he made it clear that he didn't want the job.

At this point I pulled the locking mechanisms apart to figure out the make/model of the electronic lock and called LaGard, the manufacturer. The woman I spoke with was very forthcoming once I won her over with 20 minutes of idle chitchat . . . turns out that the Model 3710 electronic dial that these safes shipped with have a high rate of failure, particularly when any number is used multiple times in the sequence of your code. She also told me that 99/100 times an electronic lock failure is due to the dial/push-pad failing, not the actual locking unit. (The locking unit on this safe is LaGard part #LG4200) Since the unit was out of warranty she referred me to a company by the name of TimeMaster that specializes in lock replacement parts. This company only sells to distributors and locksmiths, so you need to make it clear that YOU are doing the work, otherwise they won't sell straight to the consumer.

I called up TimeMaster and they told me right off the bat that the 3710 unit is a piece of shit and they fail all the time. He told me that the 3710 unit is no longer manufactured and that the 3715 is the replacement unit. The only issue is that the 3710 mounts with bolts at 3 and 9 o'clock and the 3715 mounts at 6 and 12. Because of this, I ordered the newest and most improved version that mounts up with both patterns, part #3750. That said, the Winchester safe listed in the link above provides mounting holes at 3/6/9/12, so you can save $30 and just go with 3715 as a replacement. Once I got the 3750 ($90 shipped), I replaced the unit and found that the locking mechanism, NOT the dial itself, retains the code and decides whether to unlock the safe or not. I can't say for certain which was the offending unit, but after testing I felt confident that the issue was with the locking unit and not the dial. With that, I called TimeMaster back up and ordered part #LG4200. This ended up being $100 shipped, but after a week of trial, everything seems to be functioning at 100% on the very first try, every time.

It should be noted that we're in/out of the safe at least 4 times a day, so although we suffered a catastrophic failure before 3 years, I imagine the lock will last longer for most people. That said, as soon as you start having to regularly input the code two or three times, DO NOT WAIT, BUY THE REPLACEMENT PARTS. Trust me, it's not worth not being able to get to your belongings. In my case, I bolted the safe into the floor, and the locksmith told me that it would have run us $400-500 to drill it open, plus the cost of disposal and obviously a new safe. So instead of the worst case of over $1,200, or the $380 the locksmith wanted, I spent ~$190 and did it myself. I will not publicly disclose how to dismantle and replace the lock, but if you're in a bind, PM me. I will note that the 3750 dial unit seems to be built MUCH better than the 3710 from both a security and craftsmanship standpoint, so I'm glad I upgraded. Please feel free to ask any questions regarding this safe, at this point I can probably answer the majority of them.

I am having this same problem. Happened for the first time a week ago. Now it just happened again. Can you message me with the details on how to fix problem? I'm hopping I can get the safe open.

[BionicMan]

Check your PM's.

[Trailhead]

I felt compelled to pass this info along to others that may own this safe . . .

Almost 3 years ago I purchased this 24 gun Winchester safe from Tractor Supply:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...4-gun-capacity

The electronic lock on this safe worked flawlessly for almost 2.5 years and then I started having to enter the correct code twice almost every time in order to gain access. After about a month of needing to enter it twice it started requiring the code 3 times. At this point I realized there was an issue and I should contact Winchester. Unfortunately I put it on the back burner until the lock would no longer accept our code at all. I replaced the battery thinking that was the issue, but it wasn't. We continued to enter the correct code sporadically for 5 days until we finally got lucky and it opened for us. And VERY lucky we were, as there are countless stories out there of owners with this safe never getting back in and having to have it drilled. (and then replaced)

Once we got it open I called Winchester support first and they immediately said that it was out of warranty and that my only recourse was to call a locksmith. I called a local safe locksmith and asked if he could swap out the electronic lock with a manual one. He said it was no problem, came and looked at it, and told me that it would likely be around $380, but that he would get back to me in 24-48 hours with specifics. After 72 hours of nothing I called him and he made it clear that he didn't want the job.

At this point I pulled the locking mechanisms apart to figure out the make/model of the electronic lock and called LaGard, the manufacturer. The woman I spoke with was very forthcoming once I won her over with 20 minutes of idle chitchat . . . turns out that the Model 3710 electronic dial that these safes shipped with have a high rate of failure, particularly when any number is used multiple times in the sequence of your code. She also told me that 99/100 times an electronic lock failure is due to the dial/push-pad failing, not the actual locking unit. (The locking unit on this safe is LaGard part #LG4200) Since the unit was out of warranty she referred me to a company by the name of TimeMaster that specializes in lock replacement parts. This company only sells to distributors and locksmiths, so you need to make it clear that YOU are doing the work, otherwise they won't sell straight to the consumer.

I called up TimeMaster and they told me right off the bat that the 3710 unit is a piece of shit and they fail all the time. He told me that the 3710 unit is no longer manufactured and that the 3715 is the replacement unit. The only issue is that the 3710 mounts with bolts at 3 and 9 o'clock and the 3715 mounts at 6 and 12. Because of this, I ordered the newest and most improved version that mounts up with both patterns, part #3750. That said, the Winchester safe listed in the link above provides mounting holes at 3/6/9/12, so you can save $30 and just go with 3715 as a replacement. Once I got the 3750 ($90 shipped), I replaced the unit and found that the locking mechanism, NOT the dial itself, retains the code and decides whether to unlock the safe or not. I can't say for certain which was the offending unit, but after testing I felt confident that the issue was with the locking unit and not the dial. With that, I called TimeMaster back up and ordered part #LG4200. This ended up being $100 shipped, but after a week of trial, everything seems to be functioning at 100% on the very first try, every time.

It should be noted that we're in/out of the safe at least 4 times a day, so although we suffered a catastrophic failure before 3 years, I imagine the lock will last longer for most people. That said, as soon as you start having to regularly input the code two or three times, DO NOT WAIT, BUY THE REPLACEMENT PARTS. Trust me, it's not worth not being able to get to your belongings. In my case, I bolted the safe into the floor, and the locksmith told me that it would have run us $400-500 to drill it open, plus the cost of disposal and obviously a new safe. So instead of the worst case of over $1,200, or the $380 the locksmith wanted, I spent ~$190 and did it myself. I will not publicly disclose how to dismantle and replace the lock, but if you're in a bind, PM me. I will note that the 3750 dial unit seems to be built MUCH better than the 3710 from both a security and craftsmanship standpoint, so I'm glad I upgraded. Please feel free to ask any questions regarding this safe, at this point I can probably answer the majority of them.

BionicMan, can you please PM me info on how to get this thing open so I can update my POS 3710? Thank you very much sir! Been locked out for months with some really nice pieces inside

[firebird.77]

I was "lucky" enough to have my lock fail under warranty. Winchester paid for a local 'smith to come replace it with an updated lock. I made a good connection with the installer and now have a local "safe guy" that I have used since.


FWIW, since then, we have been burglarized, and the thieves didn't bother with the Winchester safe. They did spend a good amount of time trying to carry out the 2x2x2 Walmart firesafe, which was not bolted to the floor but placed directly beneath the cash register. It was also empty, and locked shut.


The way I figure it, a competent locksmith or determined individual could penetrate a $2000 Liberty as easily as my $700 Winchester. I know it is only 1 layer of security designed to keep out lowlife crack-heads, and it served that purpose.

[WCMG]

Excellent post, thank you OP. For those interested in the technical side of the issue: I worked as an Embedded Software Engineer for 10+ years in a younger life, which basically means I was the guy that writes the software that runs embedded systems, like electronic locks. I hate electronic locks and would never use one, I like keyed or combination locks. The OP is right, 99% of the time the keypad starts to fail because of something called debouncing isn't handled correctly in the software of the lock. Any push button, from a keyboard to a keypad to your mouse clicker, has a limited life, repeat that same push enough times and eventually the connects will start to "bounce" and incorrectly send 2 clicks instead of 1 click causing code 1234 to be read as 1123 for instance OR the contacts get dirty and no click is recorded. Ways to extend life, don't repeat numbers in a code and change your code every six months or so to a set of numbers that didn't exist in the previous code. The trick to writing good debouncing code is simply to err on the side of caution and throw out any clicks that occur within 0.25 seconds of the last click of the same button. If the issue is dirt and since most push key pads are sealed, you can't get in there to clean the contacts, so replacing the keypad is your only option.

Good job OP, well done fixing a tough issue.

[BionicMan]

BionicMan, can you please PM me info on how to get this thing open so I can update my POS 3710? Thank you very much sir! Been locked out for months with some really nice pieces inside

Check your PM's.

[BionicMan]

It should be noted that we're in/out of the safe at least 4 times a day, so although we suffered a catastrophic failure before 3 years, I imagine the lock will last longer for most people.

Mileage does vary on this lockset, but I've been swamped with PM's the last 6-8 months with these things dying. If you still have the original 3710 keypad on your Winchester safe, it's time to pony up and preventatively replace it. You may also want to go ahead and replace the locking mechanism while you're at it for piece of mind. (LG4200)