Logic Behind Split-Start for Deer?

[Argentum]

Serious question asked honestly... What is the logic behind the split in antlered/antlerless season starts that PA adopted for rifle a few years ago and the PGC is now planning to vote to bring it to the remaining WMUs except 2B/5C/5D metro areas? Is the doe population being so cut down that there's a push to bring the numbers back up? With the quantity of doe that I see everywhere around me here in 1A I find it hard to believe that there's a significant underpopulation.

[Qtrborecrazy]

Argentum, my zone 3D, cut tags buy 5k this year. Maybe they see deer herds in some areas way down. It will be interesting this year when it comes to doe tags, it will answer your question.

[Argentum]

I have a number of hunting friends who get at least 2 tags (nominally 1 archery, 1 rifle) and none of us ever filled all of them. In 2014, there were 47K tags issued for 1A and I know from the general chatter that many people never filled their tags. I guess the deer harvest report will tell what the real harvest was but if it more than 40% of the tags were filled I'd be surprised. In 2013, 1A reported 13.9K antlerless harvested and I seem to recall the 1A allocation was right around 50K. So if the point is keeping the herd population lower, not sure how split start helps that other than some % of people will blast the first thing they see move on opening day. But even in that case now, the allocation and the harvest seem very skewed. Again, that's just my thinking on it but I may be way off.

[Bang]

Just a possibility...that reports via tags could be subject to inaccuracies due to failures to report kills. You know....the old meant to, but forgot....

[Gunplummer]

They just started a split deer season up here in 4-C in 2014 and it was time they did something. The old "I see doe all over the place" phrase is usually used by people that see them in their back yards or when driving through large tracts of unhuntable land. The stupid idea of issuing more tags to kill deer in areas that are closed to hunting has finally been realized as a failure by the PAGC. All those "Extra" tags were used on land open to the public and destroyed a lot of nice areas for deer hunting. The weird thing is that there are hardly any hunters up here anymore during rifle season, but the deer herd is not coming back. Coyotes? I don't know, but I was out walking around in the snow and I think I saw one set of tracks from what looked like a yearling. I would say that almost all the tracks I cut were probably made by a buck.

[Argentum]

Well, that's what confuses me about the plan. I understand the issue of over-issuance of antelerless tags and over-harvesting of the population in certain areas. However I can tell you that in the areas I hunt in 1A there's no lack of doe. Last year on opening day I saw 12 within shooting distance and another 5-7 further away. This year I ended up with some friends in an unfamiliar location and we saw a decent amount doe on the first day but it was 2D plit-start and I didn't have a 2D tag anyway.

But that's the crux of my question/issue. If the issue is under-population, why divide the start unless you're going to significantly reduce the antlerless tags. If you reduce them far enough to matter, why split the starts anyway? From what I hear, people in the split-start WMUs just focus on the first weekend rather than the first day.

From my armchair musings, I feel like I'm missing some key piece of this story as to why split-start makes a real difference...

[hacimsaalk]

Well, that's what confuses me about the plan. I understand the issue of over-issuance of antelerless tags and over-harvesting of the population in certain areas. However I can tell you that in the areas I hunt in 1A there's no lack of doe. Last year on opening day I saw 12 within shooting distance and another 5-7 further away. This year I ended up with some friends in an unfamiliar location and we saw a decent amount doe on the first day but it was 2D plit-start and I didn't have a 2D tag anyway.

But that's the crux of my question/issue. If the issue is under-population, why divide the start unless you're going to significantly reduce the antlerless tags. If you reduce them far enough to matter, why split the starts anyway? From what I hear, people in the split-start WMUs just focus on the first weekend rather than the first day.

From my armchair musings, I feel like I'm missing some key piece of this story as to why split-start makes a real difference...

I live in 1B and this is my thought exactly. Why not just cut doe licenses and keep the concurrent seasons? I for one can tell you that I will hunt the muzzleloader seasons much harder than the regular firearms season, and I probably won't be taking much time off work until the second week of the season.

[Hammerdown]

More rules= more infractions= more fines= more money. It all comes back to $.

[R.W.J]

More rules= more infractions= more fines= more money. It all comes back to $.

Interesting thought, how much fine money does the PGC bring in, compared to overall budget.

[Swamp Fox]

I have been hunting in Carbon County on the Broad Mountain (4C) since 1969 when the doe season was only two days for rifle. You saw deer come through the woods in herds. You never went a day without seeing at least a few deer. Maybe there are more coyotes now? But they waited too long to start the split season and I would not care if they went back to the Monday and Tuesday after the last Saturday of rifle season, for doe. They did reduce the doe license allocations by 5,000 this past season, but the whole idea is that it's like " locking the barn door after the horse is gone." We will see how one week for doe helps the situation, but at my age I may not see a change. I feel sorry for my grandson right now, because all I can tell him is the stories of how it used to be, when we are hunting. There are many days now that you can hunt all day and not see a deer.