New Bills In the Senate: SB98, SB 309, SB 310, SB 311

[Brick]

The squirrels have been busy! Be sure to read the texts to determine your own course of action.

Regular Session 2015-2016
Senate Bill 98

Short Title: An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, in firearms and other dangerous articles, further providing for the offense of carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.

Prime Sponsor: Senator FARNESE

Last Action: Referred to JUDICIARY, Jan. 23, 2015 [Senate]
Memo: Mandatory minimum for illegal carry of a firearm in Philadelphia

SEE: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...S&type=B&bn=98

Regular Session 2015-2016
Senate Bill 309

Short Title: An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, in firearms and other dangerous articles, further providing for the offense of sale or transfer of firearms.

Prime Sponsor: Senator HUGHES

Last Action: Referred to JUDICIARY, Jan. 23, 2015 [Senate]

Memo: Co-sponsor memo #21 – Uniform Firearms Act – Strict Liability

SEE: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...&type=B&bn=309

Regular Session 2015-2016
Senate Bill 310

Short Title: An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, in firearms and other dangerous articles, further providing for persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms.

Prime Sponsor: Senator HUGHES
Last Action: Referred to JUDICIARY, Jan. 23, 2015 [Senate]

Memo: Co-sponsor memo #20 – Uniform Firearms Act – Attempt, Conspiracy and Solicitation

SEE: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/...&type=B&bn=310

Regular Session 2015-2016
Senate Bill 311

Short Title: An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, in firearms and other dangerous articles, further providing for licenses.

Prime Sponsor: Senator HUGHES

Last Action: Referred to JUDICIARY, Jan. 23, 2015 [Senate]

Memo: Uniform Firearms Act – Concealed Carry Permits/Firearms Safety Course

See: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/...&type=B&bn=311

[ungawa]

What a douche.

[90volts]

so the antis are continually pushing there agenda by putting these bills forth. even if they know they wont carry. so... why is our side not doing the same?

[Bang]

These people like Hughes and ilk do this so they can say they are working for their constituents and can blame others for failures. Antis are happy and keep electing them.

[JenniferG]

One of my bicycle forum members has a signature "Rust Never sleeps". Maybe the title of this should be "Tyranny Never Sleeps".

[mikelets456]

These people like Hughes and ilk do this so they can say they are working for their constituents and can blame others for failures. Antis are happy and keep electing them.

This is what confuses me---

They swore an oath to the PA constitution, yet what they're doing is going against their oath because they want to please their constituents----by doing stuff that's illegal (Unconstitutional) and against their promised oath.So they're either liars or they're crazy libertarians.

I don't understand how this logic is accepted by any American. If the constituents found white people to be offensive and dangerous, would that be grounds for Unconstitutional BS bills with additional laws against whites or blacks or whatever? Hey, the constituents want this.... it's for the safety of the children!

[ungawa]

This is what confuses me---

They swore an oath to the PA constitution, yet what they're doing is going against their oath because they want to please their constituents----by doing stuff that's illegal (Unconstitutional) and against their promised oath.So they're either liars or they're crazy libertarians.

I don't understand how this logic is accepted by any American. If the constituents found white people to be offensive and dangerous, would that be grounds for Unconstitutional BS bills with additional laws against whites...

Why already have laws and long-standing EOs against whites.

[God's Country]

This is what confuses me---

They swore an oath to the PA constitution, yet what they're doing is going against their oath because they want to please their constituents----by doing stuff that's illegal (Unconstitutional) and against their promised oath.So they're either liars or they're crazy libertarians.

I don't understand how this logic is accepted by any American. If the constituents found white people to be offensive and dangerous, would that be grounds for Unconstitutional BS bills with additional laws against whites or blacks or whatever? Hey, the constituents want this.... it's for the safety of the children!

It's perfectly simple to understand.
Many believe they have rights that either do not exist or should exist therefore there reps are doing their job, i.e., protecting them from gun violence.

[GunLawyer001]

SB 311 wants to mandate "training" before one can obtain an LTCF. While facially appealing (a good training course is worth the money), my questions would be:

- How many Pennsylvanians already have LTCF's?

- How many Pennsylvanians with LTCF's have had accidents while carrying concealed or in a vehicle, in a manner that would have been unlikely to occur had the person been through a formal training class?

Because I'm sure that cops get this kind of training. In fact, cop training is listed in the bill as qualifying training. But I can recall off the top of my head a couple of incidents of cops having fatal "accidents" with guns. That State Trooper who "accidentally" shot his pregnant wife to death, despite his Official Police Training Experience. The SWAT cop in Bethlehem (or Easton, I forget which) who shot the other cop in the station; I bet he went through some official courses.

Further, I don't know of anyone who uses the phrase "he's so good, he shoots like a cop." The number of rounds fired in police shooting incidents ALWAYS exceeds the number of hits on the perp; in NYC (where I bet the cops get some training) there was an incident where the cops fired on a guy, and hit multiple bystanders; in fact, the ONLY people shot were hit by police bullets.

The average rigorously-trained cop shoots like crap, and has terrible safety habits. How many stories have we heard of traffic cops unloading seized citizen guns on the side of the road, with the muzzle aimed at the driver, while the cop tries to figure out the various levers and buttons?

Apparently, "training" is not a panacea. A smart guy without training is usually safer than an idiot with a certificate.

Every law should be subjected to a cost/benefit analysis, especially where an enumerated Constitutional right is being restricted. Under either Strict Scrutiny or Intermediate Scrutiny, the courts will look at the proposed benefit and weigh it against the obvious costs. Here, I see costs. Not seeing the benefits, though. This isn't happening in a vacuum, we have other states to look at, some with training requirements, some without.

As I recall, Florida has a training requirement already, but my recollection is that the same sorts of urban PA politicians who propose these infringements, have repeatedly belittled the Florida licensing process. So which is it, this "training" requirement will make us safer, or training is irrelevant to whether a licensed person is safer?

It's bad enough as written, but you just know that once the framework is there, it will be easier to incrementally raise the bar. Set minimum hours for the training, and incrementally raise them until it becomes an insurmountable barrier to many folks (who has 20 hours per year to take Continuing Safety Classes, for example?)

[ChemicalReaper]

Because I'm sure that cops get this kind of training. In fact, cop training is listed in the bill as qualifying training. But I can recall off the top of my head a couple of incidents of cops having fatal "accidents" with guns. That State Trooper who "accidentally" shot his pregnant wife to death, despite his Official Police Training Experience. The SWAT cop in Bethlehem (or Easton, I forget which) who shot the other cop in the station; I bet he went through some official courses.)

Then there was the cop who 'adjusted' his firearm in the elevator and shot himself. There was the other cop who, in a gunshop, played around with a loaded firearm and shot his finger off.

I have no evidence to support it, but I honestly wouldn't be all that surprised if police officers experienced a higher number of negligent discharges per capita than civilian firearms owners.