LTCF Revoked, Went in to apply again have to wait until it expires?

[PHILLY9277]

Long story short. I had my LTCF 2 years ago got arrested and had my LTCF revoked. Went through ARD and got my record expunged. Couple days ago I ran a background check on PSP website and my record came back clean. Went to gun permit unit to see if I could reapply to get my license back, had all necessary paperwork but the officer there got my file and told me I can't reapply until my previous LTCF expires in about 2 years. Anyone know why I have to wait until then to reapply?

[God's Country]

It would appear that either your ltcf was never revoked, or....gasp....Philly has no idea what the hell they are talking about. BTW AFAIK you can apply for a ltcf any time it doesn't matter. I'm willing to bet they will deny you regardless.

[PHILLY9277]

I did get the letter to turn in my license, and just today I got my gun back that I had to transfer over because of my record and everything went fine I passed the PICS check. I just really don't understand why the officer just pretty much told me I couldn't apply.

[thefirstndsecond]

That is bull. Go talk to Jon Mirowitz.

[JW1914]

Yeah probably another philly cop that just wants him and the other jackbooted thugs to be the only ones armed.

[PA_PB&J]

Please don't forget to update the thread after you talk to the SPECIALIST lawyer and get to apply.

[GunLawyer001]

That is bull. Go talk to Jon Mirowitz.

Yep, Jon's the go-to guy for this in Philly, I'd call him.

As a point of info, you can be denied an LTCF even for non-conviction events. So if there was enough to push you into ARD, there may be enough to back up a claim that you have bad character and/or reputation, and therefor they can deny you an LTCF.

Depends on what they know about the incident. There's case law that says that even if the official record is expunged, if they happen to remember you, that's enough.

[twency]

Yep, Jon's the go-to guy for this in Philly, I'd call him.

As a point of info, you can be denied an LTCF even for non-conviction events. So if there was enough to push you into ARD, there may be enough to back up a claim that you have bad character and/or reputation, and therefor they can deny you an LTCF.

Depends on what they know about the incident. There's case law that says that even if the official record is expunged, if they happen to remember you, that's enough.

At the risk of pointlessly reopening an old argument, this is why I tend to side with those who say PA isn't truly "shall issue". The issuing authority has the power to deny based on subjective criteria. ("I remember him, he was trouble.") We're obviously far better than most "may issue" states, but we're something like "shall issue, but…"

[GunLawyer001]

At the risk of pointlessly reopening an old argument, this is why I tend to side with those who say PA isn't truly "shall issue". The issuing authority has the power to deny based on subjective criteria. ("I remember him, he was trouble.") Were obviously far better than most "may issue" states, but we're something like "shall issue, but…"

The example provided to me, more than once, was the dynamic where drug dealers hire a "clean" guy to do nothing except carry a gun and "stand nearby" the drug sales. That's his job. Rival drug gangs and shady buyers know that he's there, he's providing security for the dealer. That's something that society might legitimately want to discourage, even though it's very hard to prosecute someone for loitering near drug deals.

So there's a legitimate point to having the catch-all basis for denial, just like there's a point to having a disorderly conduct statute on the books. But in both cases, some cops are going to abuse the discretionary power. Instead of using it to eliminate those who aid and abet drug gangs, the bad cops (and bad departments) use it to revoke the LTCF's of crime victims and those who failed to bow & scrape in the presence of their uniformed masters.

[American1776]

The example provided to me, more than once, was the dynamic where drug dealers hire a "clean" guy to do nothing except carry a gun and "stand nearby" the drug sales. That's his job. Rival drug gangs and shady buyers know that he's there, he's providing security for the dealer. That's something that society might legitimately want to discourage, even though it's very hard to prosecute someone for loitering near drug deals.

So there's a legitimate point to having the catch-all basis for denial, just like there's a point to having a disorderly conduct statute on the books. But in both cases, some cops are going to abuse the discretionary power. Instead of using it to eliminate those who aid and abet drug gangs, the bad cops (and bad departments) use it to revoke the LTCF's of crime victims and those who failed to bow & scrape in the presence of their uniformed masters.

This is a very interesting dynamic that you raise here. Serious question: do you know how often this actually occurs? I ask, because there is some scholarship on the prevalence of revoked permits for crimes (John Lott cites the Florida example). The numbers that I've seen, on revocations in FL, are 1.8 million issued permits and a revocation of less than 200, where most of these revocations are due to carrying into 'sensitive' areas. Given that FL has areas of heavy drug trafficking, it would seem that the 'drug-dealer security' with a LTCF thing is RARE. But I'd like to know what your own experience tells you about this.