Sig MPX SBR Internally suppressed

[forby]

So I've been watching the Sig MPX closely. A nice pistol caliber SBR that is likely to be sold to civies as a pistol first. The option to add a stock to make-your-own-SBR will also likely come down the road. They MAY even sell the other SBR versions someday as semi auto only.

Here's the thought..... They have an internally suppressed SBR that MAY someday come to market for us. Would this require TWO(2) tax stamps or just one from our overseers?

Since Sig has been doing battle with the ATF, I wouldn't be surprised if they released a civie version just to piss off the Feds.

I'm starting to save my scheckles already for this one!!!!!

[M&P Chris]

Daniel defense has one I've been looking into. The suppresor is permantly attached and only requires one stamp.

I'm not familiar with the sig, is it permantly attached?

[forby]

Daniel defense has one I've been looking into. The suppresor is permantly attached and only requires one stamp.

I'm not familiar with the sig, is it permantly attached?

Being internal, I might assume that......

[M&P Chris]

Being internal, I might assume that......

Duh, I totally overlooked that.

It sounds cool, I'm gonna look into it.

[Sam1911]

To be clear: It's one stamp ONLY if the combined barrel and permanently-installed portion of the suppressor are greater than 16". If you've got an integrally suppressed barrel that STILL comes in at less than 16", then it is still two stamps.

Daniel defense has one I've been looking into. The suppresor is permantly attached and only requires one stamp.

You're right, because the combined length of the barrel and permanently-attached suppressor is greater than 16".

There isn't really any (legal) benefit to permanently attaching a suppressor if the total barrel+suppressor length is going to be <16" because it will be two stamps anyway.

[PA1936MN]

What would adding another suppressor on top of a firearm that is already internally supressed do? Would it take the sound down more?

[Solaran_X]

To be clear: It's one stamp ONLY if the combined barrel and permanently-installed portion of the suppressor are greater than 16". If you've got an integrally suppressed barrel that STILL comes in at less than 16", then it is still two stamps.

You're right, because the combined length of the barrel and permanently-attached suppressor is greater than 16".

There isn't really any (legal) benefit to permanently attaching a suppressor if the total barrel+suppressor length is going to be <16" because it will be two stamps anyway.

Source?

I was under the impression that a firearm would only be one stamp due to being a single serial number.

Such as a firearm that qualifies as a "machine gun" requires only a single tax stamp, regardless of the length of the barrel. An automatic rifle with a 10.3" barrel costs $200, and an automatic rifle with a 20" barrel costs $200. The 10.3" machine gun does not require a tax paid for the "machine gun" and an extra tax paid for the "short-barreled rifle."

Now obviously, if the suppressor is removable it is two tax stamps with two unique serial numbers. But if its a SBR with an integrated suppressor, there should still be only a single serial number - the serial number for the SBR since the suppressor is a permanent part of the SBR.

Or is someone buying this firearm supposed to fill out two Form 4s using the exact same serial number on both and the exact same make/model on both?

[JoshIronshaft]

Source?

I was under the impression that a firearm would only be one stamp due to being a single serial number.

Such as a firearm that qualifies as a "machine gun" requires only a single tax stamp, regardless of the length of the barrel. An automatic rifle with a 10.3" barrel costs $200, and an automatic rifle with a 20" barrel costs $200. The 10.3" machine gun does not require a tax paid for the "machine gun" and an extra tax paid for the "short-barreled rifle."

Now obviously, if the suppressor is removable it is two tax stamps with two unique serial numbers. But if its a SBR with an integrated suppressor, there should still be only a single serial number - the serial number for the SBR since the suppressor is a permanent part of the SBR.

Or is someone buying this firearm supposed to fill out two Form 4s using the exact same serial number on both and the exact same make/model on both?

A suppressor, be it permanently fixed to a firearm or not, is still a suppressor and serialized and transferred/owned as a suppressor. For example, with the AR, if you remove the lower, you no longer have a complete firearm. You have a suppressor with an upper attached to it, so you must treat it as a suppressor using a Form 4. The suppressor will always be treated as a suppressor, but your weapon may not always be treated as an SBR depending on permanent barrel length as outlined above by others.

A machine gun is not defined by barrel length, so it is never an SBR.

[Sam1911]

Yep, Josh beat me to it.

Here's a Daniel Defense product page that explains it pretty clearly: https://danieldefense.com/daniel-def...ifle-1064.html

The ISR takes advantage of the best characteristics of the 300BLK by integrating key components into one package, eliminating the need for two separate tax stamps. While the rifle utilizes a 10.3” barrel, it is not classified as an SBR (Short-Barreled Rifle) because the suppressor is permanently attached. ... bringing the barrel length to 16.145”. While the rifle is at the 16” legal limit, the ISR’s integrated suppressor will require an NFA tax stamp.

[Solaran_X]

A suppressor, be it permanently fixed to a firearm or not, is still a suppressor and serialized and transferred/owned as a suppressor. For example, with the AR, if you remove the lower, you no longer have a complete firearm. You have a suppressor with an upper attached to it, so you must treat it as a suppressor using a Form 4. The suppressor will always be treated as a suppressor, but your weapon may not always be treated as an SBR depending on permanent barrel length as outlined above by others.

A machine gun is not defined by barrel length, so it is never an SBR.

I can understand that with an AR15-platform rifle, since the upper and lower can be separated and only the lower is serialized (and as such registered as a SBR or not based on the length of the barrel attached to the URG)

But what about firearms that have the barrel connected to the serialized part, such as the MP5, UMP, any variant of AK or the KRISS?

Would a newly built S/A MP5SD with an integral suppressor and a barrel length less than 16" be a two tax stamp gun (SBR and Suppressor) or a one tax stamp gun because the suppressor is permanently mounted to the serialized part of the SBR?