PA State Police sales data

[Deleted]

No, he means that CLEAN is the program that they use to access the RoSdb.

That's it! I should have removed another half sentence from the quote.

[Deleted]

The uses I have had for the sales database have been a bit "unusual" compared to it's typical LE usage. My last involved a "person not to possess" who had an old Harrington & Richardson revolver. It was not listed in NCIC / CLEAN as stolen. Without the sales database the gun would have ended up in the smelter after the criminal case was concluded and we obtained a destruction order for the firearm.

So I ran the H&R through the sales database and came up with an owner from Lancaster County. I contacted him and found out that the gun was stolen three years earlier in a burglary of his home. He did not know the serial number when he reported the burglary and the stolen firearm. Our evidence custodian reunited the sad and lonely gun to it's owner and life was grand.

This was not typical by far of how they system is used. And one could argue that if you fail to keep good records for when your stuff gets stolen you deserve to have it smeltered. Other than this teensy weensy example of something good coming out of the system (which it wasn't suppose to do anyway, 9 years after the sale) it served no sourpuss for LE. Either you are legally entitled to possess a firearm or you are not. Ownership is irrelevant.

The problem is on our end and revolves around training... its a systemic problem. Not enough time and money is dedicated to legal training.

[Bang]

I assume the PSP sales data base has long guns FFL sales also? So the carbine I bought face-to-face from a nice man in the lobby of a Harrisburg gun show via gun show loop-hole is still in the name of the last FFL purchaser, assuming it occurred in PA and gun was not originally bought by someone in another state who moved to PA and subsequently sold it FTF via gun show loop-hole, eventually winding up in the hands of the nice man I cannot identify and would be hard pressed to recall which (date) show I bought it? Investigator recovering my stolen carbine would then hold the carbine until I can prove it is my property, which should be presumptive sans evidence to the contrary but in practice is not.

[LBaker]

I assume the PSP sales data base has long guns FFL sales also? So the carbine I bought face-to-face from a nice man in the lobby of a Harrisburg gun show via gun show loop-hole is still in the name of the last FFL purchaser, assuming it occurred in PA and gun was not originally bought by someone in another state who moved to PA and subsequently sold it FTF via gun show loop-hole, eventually winding up in the hands of the nice man I cannot identify and would be hard pressed to recall which (date) show I bought it? Investigator recovering my stolen carbine would then hold the carbine until I can prove it is my property, which should be presumptive sans evidence to the contrary but in practice is not.

Long gun records are not kept as part of the traditional system. It's my understanding that some shenanigans are going on with the new online system.

[Deleted]

I assume the PSP sales data base has long guns FFL sales also? So the carbine I bought face-to-face from a nice man in the lobby of a Harrisburg gun show via gun show loop-hole is still in the name of the last FFL purchaser, assuming it occurred in PA and gun was not originally bought by someone in another state who moved to PA and subsequently sold it FTF via gun show loop-hole, eventually winding up in the hands of the nice man I cannot identify and would be hard pressed to recall which (date) show I bought it? Investigator recovering my stolen carbine would then hold the carbine until I can prove it is my property, which should be presumptive sans evidence to the contrary but in practice is not.

No... long guns are not kept in the sales database. This is why the State Supreme Court has determined that it is not a "registry" per say which would be illegal under state law since the sales database is not "all inclusive".