Scope mounting quesiton

[Brudog]

I just had a scope mounted at a local shop and I have a question. First off the guy eyeballed all the torque settings which I'm kind of not happy with. I am a little anal when it comes to specs being an engineer. In his defense I bought the scope from someone else but spent quite a bit on rings and a base at the shop where it was mounted.

The scope has 70MOA of total windage and elevation travel. When the scope is bore sighted I have 25MOA of elevation left. I haven't sighted it in yet but I can't believe the bore sighting would be off my 10 inches could it? It is a 0 MOA EGW HD Steel one piece base with Nightforce rings.

My question is, is this normal? I would assume I would have had more vertical elevation. Being a 223 I don't think I would need more than 25 MOA of elevation but it seems to be a waste to have all that left over travel on the low end. Wouldn't the scope be somewhere closer to the middle of its elevation adjustment range if the base is a 0 MOA base?

Also how may of you use torque wrenches when mounting scopes. It is a Sightron 8-32x56 target scope with 1/8 MOA clicks on a Savage model 12 LRPV rifle.

Any opinions are welcome.

[omgur2]

A Lot of old timers use the "feel" system, or as I like to call it "omph and a grunt" I prefer the use of a torque wrench when I do it and I am a trained machinist.

[frankski]

The scope mount can be shimmed by a competent gunsmith/shop to get it closer to zero when boresighted.

I use a torque screwdriver for my base and scope mounts: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/718...ch-screwdriver

Every base and scope ring manufacturer has a different torque recommendation. Break off a screw inside a receiver and you will have a major sad. Additionally, stocks need to be torqued to actions for best accuracy, and the torque applied varies depending on aluminum or other bedding.

It doesn't make sense to spend several hundred dollars on scope and mounts but skimp on a tools (or, alternatively, competent installation).

[Qtrborecrazy]

The scope mount can be shimmed by a competent gunsmith/shop to get it closer to zero when boresighted.

I use a torque screwdriver for my base and scope mounts: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/718...ch-screwdriver

Every base and scope ring manufacturer has a different torque recommendation. Break off a screw inside a receiver and you will have a major sad. Additionally, stocks need to be torqued to actions for best accuracy, and the torque applied varies depending on aluminum or other bedding.

It doesn't make sense to spend several hundred dollars on scope and mounts but skimp on a tools (or, alternatively, competent installation).

Do the bases have windage screws on the rear? I use Talley rings only.

[Tomcat088]

I just had a scope mounted at a local shop and I have a question. First off the guy eyeballed all the torque settings which I'm kind of not happy with. I am a little anal when it comes to specs being an engineer. In his defense I bought the scope from someone else but spent quite a bit on rings and a base at the shop where it was mounted.

The scope has 70MOA of total windage and elevation travel. When the scope is bore sighted I have 25MOA of elevation left. I haven't sighted it in yet but I can't believe the bore sighting would be off my 10 inches could it? It is a 0 MOA EGW HD Steel one piece base with Nightforce rings.

My question is, is this normal? I would assume I would have had more vertical elevation. Being a 223 I don't think I would need more than 25 MOA of elevation but it seems to be a waste to have all that left over travel on the low end. Wouldn't the scope be somewhere closer to the middle of its elevation adjustment range if the base is a 0 MOA base?

Also how may of you use torque wrenches when mounting scopes. It is a Sightron 8-32x56 target scope with 1/8 MOA clicks on a Savage model 12 LRPV rifle.

Any opinions are welcome.

That's a nice scope, and congrats on your new purchase. Personally, I wouldn't exactly be happy with purchasing a pretty nice scope, and then having someone I don't really know torquing it by feel. Then again, I wouldn't just give anyone a decent scope to mount for me. In his defense, my gunsmith uses a T handle to torque action screws, scope rings, etc. and his "feel" is pretty dang accurate. When I break out my my inch pounds torque wrench, he's never very far off.

I'm curious as to how you know that you have 25 moa of elevation left. Did you actually dial the scope in the "up" direction, watch the reticle, and actually see that you only had 25 moa of travel? Or are you just guessing that you have 25 moa of elevation left because of how the turrets came zeroed from the factory, and so that's what leads you to believe that you have 25 moa of elevation left? It may sound like jerk questions, but I'm really not trying to be. There are several reason that I ask. The first reason is that scopes will usually say that they have so many minutes of elevation. It's not uncommon to find out that your scope actually have several more MOA of travel, although sometimes people find they have a little less. The other reason that I ask is because most of the time when the scope leave the factory, the turrets may not actually be centered at the "optical center", or even have the center of that travel at the optical center of the scope. Some scope manufacturers know that most shooters, particularly long range shooters, will be using more "up" and so some put the center of travel offset to account for this.

The other problem is that all of this is also relative to the angle of the barrel and the action/base. As an engineer, I'm sure that you're aware that a bullet always starts to fall as it leaves the barrel, and never travels "up". So in order for the scope/sights to ever have the bullet cross their path, there has to be an angle between the top of the action/base, and the barrel so that you can choose a distance for the two to intersect. This angle, height of the rings, "cant" of the base, etc. all make a difference. Personally, I don't think that 10 moa off of the optical center is unheard of by any means. Just because you have a 0 MOA base doesn't mean that you'll be close to the center of travel for a particular scope, there's just so many other variables that come into play. Even things like if the rings are true, lapped, how true the receiver is, if the base is bedded, etc. can play a part. Honestly, at this point in the game, I wouldn't even be sweating it. I've seen guys "bore sight" a rifle and have it 3-6" off at 100 yards. This would mean that you might gain as much (or lose) a significant portion of the MOA you're worried about. This is the whole reason that canted bases exist. So that you can choose a base, so that you gain the extra travel in a direction that you're going to use it. You are basically changing the angle between the barrel and base to gain that travel in the "up" direction (physically down). You'd also be surprised at how much several thousandths of a inch can make (in moa), depending on how far apart your scope rings are.

If after you shoot it the rifle, you figure out that it is 10 MOA from the center of travel, I still probably wouldn't sweat it on a .223. You probably aren't going to be shooting distances where you'd use more than 25 moa. Also, try to remember that the scope isn't "10 inches" off of the center, it's 10 MOA, there's a HUGE difference. The guy might have bore sight the scope in at 25 yards, and I can also assure you that you can have HUGE difference in an actual zero from a 25 yard bore sight if you're not using an actual collimator. I'd go out and shoot it, see how far it actually is, and if that is going to fit within your needs. If you really are unhappy with it, you can turn it loose from the base, remount it, and see if it gets better, or go with a canted base if you'd like more travel. Finding out the ACTUAL zero and how much travel you have is far more important, so try not to sweat it too much just yet. Oh, and yes, I do use a torque wrench when mounting my scopes, action screws, etc.

[Brudog]

I think you are correct. I decided to bore site it myself using a laser bore sighter at 25 yards it looks like I am about 3 inches high. He used a manetic bore sighter. This being the case I will have no issues at 100 yards.

When I say I have X inches or MOA of elevation left what I mean is based on my turrets at 1/8 MOA per click I have that much upward adjustment left before the scope tops out.

We will see where it lands when I get to the range. I am still not thrilled about just feeling the torque but you think you can trust someone who has been doing it for decades to do it right.

[aubie515]

If you are going to pay to have optics mounted, I'd want them to be professional enough to use torque wrenches to complete the task. Otherwise, why pay someone to do that when you could have done it yourself???

I had the Wheeler FAT wrench and somehow lost it (I think I loaned it to someone and it walked off). I went with the Borka and it's been a great piece of gear for me. Not cheap, but it will last me a while.

http://www.borkatools.com/

I personally only buy 20 MOA bases for the same reason you are posting. It's like buying a large enough safe. Always buy bigger than what you need for future plans.

I also only buy EGW 20 MOA bases on my rifles. Great value and they are a local PA company to boot.

You can "bore sight" using the eyeball technique...just remove your bolt from rifle. Look down through the bore and scope say at 25 or 50 yards and you will be on the paper. It's not that difficult to "bore sight" field expedient technique.

Me personally, I feel that your magnification is a tad bit too high for a 223, but that's just me.

[Brudog]

The rifle in question is really a varmint/bench rifle. For bench re st shooting the scope is actually less than what is typically used. I didn't want a 60mm objective so I stayed at 8-32x56.