Firearms and Education

[PA1749]

This is a topic that bothers me deeply. Every founding father believed that both, the right to bear arms and that educating the common people was necessary for the success of the country. I believe in both. I believe in a militia "if you will" that is both well educated and armed. However, political parties seem to have caused a dangerous division in this happening.

Democrats: Pro education spending vs. anti gun ownership
Republicans: Pro gun ownership vs. anti education spending

So, on one hand we have unarmed educated individuals and on the other hand we have uneducated armed individuals. For an all controlling central government, this is an ideal situation. To control all of society.

Of course this is a most basic argument and opened to all sorts of attacks and challenges, but aren't these the basic allegiances of both party lines?

I propose a Jeffersonian Party that sees both issues as equally important.

Thoughts?

[BobGun]

This is a topic that bothers me deeply. Every founding father believed that both, the right to bear arms and that educating the common people was necessary for the success of the country. I believe in both. I believe in a militia "if you will" that is both well educated and armed. However, political parties seem to have caused a dangerous division in this happening.

Democrats: Pro education spending vs. anti gun ownership
Republicans: Pro gun ownership vs. anti education spending

So, on one hand we have unarmed educated individuals and on the other hand we have uneducated armed individuals. For an all controlling central government, this is an ideal situation. To control all of society.

Of course this is a most basic argument and opened to all sorts of attacks and challenges, but aren't these the basic allegiances of both party lines?

I propose a Jeffersonian Party that sees both issues as equally important.

Thoughts?

Actually the Republicans are anti wasted education spending. Such has schools systems having more administration employees then teachers. They are also against teaching a anti American agenda.

They also do not fall lock step into the teachers unions demands.

[Brick]

My first thought is you have been listening to too much "liberal" propaganda if you believe that Republicans are anti-education "spending". It was the Republicans who favored school vouchers so families could choose the school for their children to attend. It was the democrats who stopped it.

I think you'll also find that Republicans dislike federal control and federal directed education requirements attached to federal dollars provided to schools. You'd probably also find most Republicans prefer LOCAL control of schools and school boards.

[JAKIII]

BobGun and Brick stole my thunder with your (spot on) replies. I would add that teacher retiree pensions and benefits are eating up a lot of the money that never reaches the students.

[spacemanvic]

This is a topic that bothers me deeply. Every founding father believed that both, the right to bear arms and that educating the common people was necessary for the success of the country. I believe in both. I believe in a militia "if you will" that is both well educated and armed. However, political parties seem to have caused a dangerous division in this happening.

Democrats: Pro education spending vs. anti gun ownership
Republicans: Pro gun ownership vs. anti education spending

So, on one hand we have unarmed educated individuals and on the other hand we have uneducated armed individuals. For an all controlling central government, this is an ideal situation. To control all of society.

Of course this is a most basic argument and opened to all sorts of attacks and challenges, but aren't these the basic allegiances of both party lines?

I propose a Jeffersonian Party that sees both issues as equally important.

Thoughts?

I have a thought: how about you come back to us with a premise based on fact instead of propaganda and we might entertain continuing this discussion?

[JAKIII]

I have a thought: how about you come back to us with a premise based on fact instead of propaganda and we might entertain continuing this discussion?

I guess we're done here...

[Cyclops]

I disagree with the notion that the Founding Fathers took any stand on education. Education is not mentioned in the Constitution of the United States. The Founders wanted most aspects of life governed by people who were directly affected by them, and they left matters like education up to the discretion of state or local government, families, and others who wanted to advance education, such as private and parochial institutions. Education is not a Constitutional right. Bearing arms is a Constitutional right.

The federal government has educational mandates because it pumps money into school districts and states, and it can attach conditions when it doles out money. Unfortunately, those conditions are mostly stupid because they are made by politicians and not by educators. At the state level we have appointed bureaucrats making mandates for schools. Most often they have no insight into how to educate a student. Of course, at the local level we have school boards most of whom have never taught in a classroom, but who make decisions based upon personal beliefs rather than educational experience.

The problem with education is not democrat or republican party positions. The problem is that the people who control how education is run in this country do not have any experience as educators. I have had some medical issues in my 72 years on this earth. I had bullet wounds treated by Navy docs. I had torn knee ligaments and torn rotator cuffs treated by orthopedic specialists. My slightly elevated blood pressure was treated by my GP. The dog bite I got three month ago was treated nurse practitioner. As a kid I had er infections. As a teen I had allergies. As an adult I had other ailments. Doctors managed them all. BUT, did my medical experiences qualify me to regulate medical how the medical community operates? Of course not. I know nothing about medicine. I know nothing about education. My life is better because of both, but I have absolutely no qualifications to make judgements about about the best way to advance either discipline.

Flip to the right to bear arms, and I know a great deal. The Constitutions says what it says, and the Supreme Court has upheld that right. Now that is very simple unlike education. My wife taught HS English in public inter-city, suburban, and private schools for 40 years. She would tell you this:

“Hire the best teachers you can find. Pay them a fair salary. The best can handle large class sizes. Stop spending money on excessive numbers of administrators, and teach parents who need it what they can do make their child’s education better.”

She and I do disagree on one thing. I think teachers should be allowed to conceal carry, if they are trained to handle firearms. In PA we make armed security guards take courses to get the right to carry. I would apply that to teachers too. It’s a short course and the state ought to pay for it. Too many children have been gunned down in schools. The NRA does not make that happen and the anti-gun lobby cannot stop it. In Nam I learned that the best way to stop a guy shooting at you or others was to shoot him. Perfect solution to a simple problem.

[Cfurlo]

So people with guns are uneducated? Gotcha.

[ChemicalReaper]

So people with guns are uneducated? Gotcha.

This here dee-ploma I got from the university says I graduated "come lordy"! I guess that must be Mexican or somethin'.

[JAKIII]

This here dee-ploma I got from the university says I graduated "come lordy"! I guess that must be Mexican or somethin'.

Although, unless you are a doctor or lawyer the diploma basically gets you the interview... no one cares what your GPA was...