Bucks Co Commissioners "balk" at gun lockers for new courthouse

[freesoul]

Perhaps they need to familiarize themselves with Title 18 § 913(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.
http://www.theintell.com/news/local/...725f47e4c.html

Posted: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 8:30 pm | Updated: 10:29 am, Wed Sep 3, 2014.
By James McGinnis Staff writer

Should Bucks County’s cops carry guns in the new courthouse?
An emerging dispute over cops, guns and security could impact construction of the $85 million Bucks County Justice Center that's already more than a year behind schedule.

At a meeting Tuesday in Doylestown, county Commissioners Robert Loughery, Charley Martin and Diane Marseglia balked at plans to install 60 gun lockers in the new courthouse lobby under construction down the street.

The commissioners said the lockers weren't necessary since they had already decided to allow police officers' guns in the building. They then signaled plans to deny the contract to buy them.

Tipped off by a phone call, Bucks County President Judge Jeffrey Finley arrived at the meeting and told the commissioners that no police officers' guns would be allowed in the new justice center. Only county detectives, sheriffs and security would be allowed to carry firearms into that building, Finley added.
Finley said the decision on guns for the new building was made months ago by the board of judges. He noted that increased security was one of the primary reasons for construction of a new justice center.
Police guns are currently permitted in the existing Bucks County courthouse, also located in Doylestown.

Reached for comment after the meeting, Bucks County Security Director Christopher Daley said his guards allowed current law enforcement officers to bring their service weapons. Retired police officers and other residents with gun permits must store any weapons in lock boxes kept by the county. Daley said his guards handle about 15 to 20 guns per day from courthouse visitors.

Daley refused to weigh in on the gun dispute between the commissioners and the judges.

No official action was taken Tuesday by the commissioners. "I think we need to decide who makes the final decision on this," Marseglia said.
Finley seemed to have a ready answer.

"It has always been within the authority of the president judge to decide issues of security of courthouse," the president judge said. "Judges always decide issues of security in their courts."

Responding to commissioners' questions about the guns and lockers, courthouse construction manager Jerry Anderson began to sound exasperated. His voice became hoarse.

“That changes the whole front lobby of the building and the design work," said Anderson.

In neighboring Montgomery County, uniformed officers may carry guns into court. Officers in plain clothes may also carry firearms so long as their badge is plainly visible, said Russell Bono, Montgomery County’s sheriff.
Upon entering that building, officers are asked whether they are “on duty” or visiting on personal business. Montgomery County’s sheriffs deputies are also armed, though courthouse security is not.

[normanvin]

Do it now or do it later.

[Bang]

Bucks courts have had odd attitudes for decades. Police officers not allowed to appear(testify) in uniform, no guns in the courtroom ala a deceased president judge who was anti-gun as it gets, no color images of graphic scenes...has to be black and white, probably the last to accept digital photography (arguing chronological sequencing found in negatives is missing in digital and digital is too easily manipulated/photoshopped. The lobby gun locker situation in the present building has been friendly and adequate.

[daschnoz]

Do it now or do it later.

Why would they want to do it now? If they wait until later, they can pay the legal fees when someone sues for violation of PA law (not providing storage). Plus, it will cost 2x to re-fit the building with the storage area.

If they do it now, they have no reason to hire their friends later.

The real solution to the problem is to put some teeth into the preemption statutes. Violate X, it cost Y dollars and holds the people who voted for it PERSONALLY liable for the monetary fine.

[Grey Bearded One]

Bucks courts have had odd attitudes for decades. Police officers not allowed to appear(testify) in uniform, no guns in the courtroom

Years ago, this was an issue in DC as the claim was made that the uniformed and armed police officer could be intimidating to the jury.

Why do cops need to be armed in a courthouse? It's a gun free zone so they should be safe also what if some bad guy grabs their gun?

[Kurt_D]

Someone needs to stuff a copy of 18 Pa.C.S. § 913: (e) up the noses of Robert Loughery, Charley Martin and Diane Marseglia to indicate that they would be in direct violation of state law if lockers are not provided...

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.--Each county shall make available at or within the building containing a court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d).

There is nothing ambiguous about that paragraph - at least not to anyone with a functioning braincell...

[zackattack784]

Someone needs to stuff a copy of 18 Pa.C.S. § 913: (e) up the noses of Robert Loughery, Charley Martin and Diane Marseglia to indicate that they would be in direct violation of state law if lockers are not provided...


There is nothing ambiguous about that paragraph - at least not to anyone with a functioning braincell...

Are you arguing they have a functioning brain cell? If so, you're severely underestimating the stupidity of some people.

[Bang]

Over the years, around the country, judges have been attacked as well as other personnel. Trials are open to the public. Innocuous objects can be turned into weapons by anyone at any time. Some benches have been designed "hardened" so the judge can duck under/behind the bench while the rest of the staff try to deal with the matter. Why ask me why police need to be armed in a gun-free zone (surely you jest). Ask the jurisdictions that allow it, and the judges who are armed under their robes.

[Kurt_D]

Are you arguing they have a functioning brain cell? If so, you're severely underestimating the stupidity of some people.

No... I'm arguing that they don't...

[Sgt.K]

Why do cops need to be armed in a courthouse? It's a gun free zone so they should be safe also what if some bad guy grabs their gun?

I see what you did there...