NCCSC

[TDSjr]

Good Afternoon Henrik

I was at each of the meetings you mentioned. I'm also familiar with the individuals in question as well as the topics surrounding them. There are people on both sides of the issues you mentioned that should be able to talk and work out their differences with. I would think that these conversations could possibly be handled by both sides in a more professional manner but that ship looks to have sailed.

The individual who sponsored my application was one of the individuals involved in one of those conversations. I have the highest level of respect for him not only as a club member but as a shooter also. The life member you also mentioned is also a long term member who's opinion should carry some weight.

The topics you mentioned are very detailed and it would seem as if you have much more details than I do. I'm hoping that all of this type of information can be presented in a proper forum for the membership to review and formulate an opinion on their own. I wish I was as well informed as well. Perhaps you can offer a few minutes before Monday's meeting for me to hear some of what you can share.

At the end of the day it's still a gun club. The focus should be on the shooters, the facilities and a safe environment to have those activities. The activities and items you mention all focus around the board and various members impacted. With over 700+ members and each member entitled to their vision for the club it was bound to come to a head at a certain point.

If members of the board or members of the club don't see eye to eye sometimes it's just time to work it our or part company. That's just my opinion. I'd like to attend the meetings, hear what's going on, grab a hotdog or the mystery meal of the night and take a chance at the monthly chance for the firearm raffle. I would hope we make progress on all sides.

TDSjr

[HenrikGeorge124]

Good Afternoon Henrik

I was at each of the meetings you mentioned. I'm also familiar with the individuals in question as well as the topics surrounding them. There are people on both sides of the issues you mentioned that should be able to talk and work out their differences with. I would think that these conversations could possibly be handled by both sides in a more professional manner but that ship looks to have sailed.

The individual who sponsored my application was one of the individuals involved in one of those conversations. I have the highest level of respect for him not only as a club member but as a shooter also. The life member you also mentioned is also a long term member who's opinion should carry some weight.

The topics you mentioned are very detailed and it would seem as if you have much more details than I do. I'm hoping that all of this type of information can be presented in a proper forum for the membership to review and formulate an opinion on their own. I wish I was as well informed as well. Perhaps you can offer a few minutes before Monday's meeting for me to hear some of what you can share.

At the end of the day it's still a gun club. The focus should be on the shooters, the facilities and a safe environment to have those activities. The activities and items you mention all focus around the board and various members impacted. With over 700+ members and each member entitled to their vision for the club it was bound to come to a head at a certain point.

If members of the board or members of the club don't see eye to eye sometimes it's just time to work it our or part company. That's just my opinion. I'd like to attend the meetings, hear what's going on, grab a hotdog or the mystery meal of the night and take a chance at the monthly chance for the firearm raffle. I would hope we make progress on all sides.

TDSjr

TDSjr,
While I appreciate your offer for a face to face conversation at Monday’s meeting I have to decline. I have seen how people who speak out against the board are dealt with and choose to confine my comments to this forum for the time being. As of right now, I’m not sure I’ll be able to make Monday’s meeting but we’ll see.

How does one handle things in a professional manner when the board refuses to? The bylaws became available for members to read for the first time at around 11:30 pm on the night before the June meeting. Have you read them? Does the board abide by them? The board uses the fact that the bylaws do not address something as both a reason something cannot be done (removing the Membership Secretary from his board position) as well as a reason something can be done (suspending a board member indefinitely or creating a committee with the power to suspend or expel members) depending upon whether or not the board wants it to happen. Is this acting in a professional manner in your opinion?

What do you consider the proper forum? When anyone brings up something the board does not want to talk about in a meeting they are told they are out of order or they are asked to come to a board meeting to discuss the matter. Why can’t things be discussed in the open meeting for all to hear?

It is still a gun club and one of the reasons most of us probably enjoy it so much is the relaxed atmosphere and limited rules. I feel this is changing fast. The board has already implemented new range rules without the member’s involvement and if what I hear is true, more rules are coming.

I will remind you that the member you say you respect so much shouted out in frustration before the meeting started and got punished for it by being told they were not mentally stable enough to be an NRA instructor. Do you hold the same opinion of them? Prior to this person shouting out someone affiliated with the board called 911 to have the police come! What was going on that justified calling 911? In June there were two State patrol cars at the club, in July there were three and in August there were four. The area where the club is located is very rural and tying up the state police troopers at our meetings was an outrage.

The Treasurer tore up the board in the explanation for his resignation yet there is no mention of anything he said in this thread, except for my posts. What about the President trying to intimidate the 1st VP by questioning him about his kids behavior? His kids are over 18 and I’ve never seen them behave badly even when they first joined and were younger.

If the board is going against the bylaws and misleading members what is a member to do? If they can suspend a board member indefinitely they can certainly do it to the average member that disagrees with them. Should I quit because they are doing wrong? I think I’ll continue to voice my opinion the only way I can right now with little fear of retaliation.

By the way, it does not look like you will be having any more mystery meals because the one person responsible for preparing them and offering them for free to members at meetings has been suspended indefinitely by the board which as the Treasurer says is a defacto expulsion. Why did the members vote on whether to expel him at all? It had zero effect.

Club members and potential members need to focus on the details of what is being said both here and at the meetings rather than the way or manner in which it was said.

[Shadowflag]

WOW... i am a relatively new member having joined within the last year. I was only able to make it to the first meeting when i joined late last year. It seemed fine.

I made it out over the winter to clear snow and plow the lot, seemed like a good bunch of people there. i have been up a handful of time by my self or with the family to shoot. usually pretty empty.

When i got the various communications over the summer etc, i thought it was getting a little weird and figured there are clearly some political issues in play.

i had no idea what a shit show it really was.

i do wish there was a better way to stay on top of things that are going on. the truth is, getting to the meetings just isn't that easy. i am glad this tread is going to discuss the matters a little bit. i think a club forum or list serve/yahoo group would be nice for members to communicate with each other... but i am sure that would just turn into another internet pissing match...

Still like the club and the facilities, hope this nonsense gets worked out soon.

[HenrikGeorge124]

In addition to the political crap, yes crap, that is going on within the club, I see another growing problem. It seems in the summer months every weekend the ranges, and facilities are being used for courses, and are essentially closed for use by members. Then there are work days on Saturday which are necessary, but take another weekend day out of the month in which you can use the ranges. I can only surmise that revenue is now more important than the ability for club members to use the ranges on weekends in the summer when it is actually nice to shoot outside.

Maybe another pistol range can be constructed just for courses which would free up the other ranges for member use on weekends. After all, most of us work during the week, and only have time on weekends to shoot. I plan to attend the next few meetings to voice my concerns, and also vote in the upcoming elections.

Thanks for contributing to the discussion Pilot321,
While I disagree that this is political and feel it is a matter of doing what is right by the members and the bylaws, we can agree on the use of ranges by instructors. If you read my thread in response to TDSjr you will see the instructors mentioned several times as having been involved in the inner workings of the club and not in a good light. They make up the majority of members of several committees and make money using the club facilities as well as being part of the push for rules changes.

As far as revenue being more important than the member, I am beginning to think you may be right but the club receives only $10 per day for each person using the range.

The new pistol bay is being constructed for all members use and will relieve some of the pressure.

Along with how training affects the average members access to the ranges, I feel the members should also consider what affect it has on the neighbors. The ranges were always used more heavily on the weekends but now people are there all day shooting and sometimes on both Saturday and Sunday for some of the classes. These classes put 400-1000 rounds or more per person down range per day or per event. Classes have anywhere from 5-20 participants. I would think this will have a detrimental impact on our neighbors sooner rather than later.

[Shadowflag]

also... i might have missed the rage rules changes? what changed that was significant?

i thought i recall that brass could be left behind, but it looks like that its not the case anymore?

what else?

[Pilot321]

While I disagree that this is political and feel it is a matter of doing what is right by the members and the bylaws, we can agree on the use of ranges by instructors. If you read my thread in response to TDSjr you will see the instructors mentioned several times as having been involved in the inner workings of the club and not in a good light. They make up the majority of members of several committees and make money using the club facilities as well as being part of the push for rules changes.

Well, there you have it. It sounds like these gun course instructors have taken over a good bit of the leadership of the club, and MAY be acting in their own best interest, and to a detriment to the average, weekend shooting member.

As far as revenue being more important than the member, I am beginning to think you may be right but the club receives only $10 per day for each person using the range.

Well, I wonder what the instructors, operating their private businesses on club property make per person? It may be a revenue issue, but not necessarily a CLUB revenue issue, but an instructor revenue issue.

I am only surmising, but it is strange to see so many courses, every weekend being conducted, and ranges closed to active members. I could be totally wrong, but I will try to attend some meetings, and find out for myself.

[PeterParker357]

The classes given at the club promote gun education and safety. The range use almost never impacts any member's use of the club. I have been at the club many times on the weekend and never saw any one that could not shoot. I can not begin to tell you the dozens of times I have been there on a Saturday by my self and no one comes for hours.
The reason that you see instructors involved in other committees is that they give back more than they ever receive. You should be pleased that your club is made safer and you individually are safer through their efforts. I would doubt that if in a years time they make enough money to by the personal ammo they shoot.

[Pilot321]

The classes given at the club promote gun education and safety. The range use almost never impacts any member's use of the club. I have been at the club many times on the weekend and never saw any one that could not shoot. I can not begin to tell you the dozens of times I have been there on a Saturday by my self and no one comes for hours.
The reason that you see instructors involved in other committees is that they give back more than they ever receive. You should be pleased that your club is made safer and you individually are safer through their efforts. I would doubt that if in a years time they make enough money to by the personal ammo they shoot.

Have you looked at the weekend schedules for the months this summer? I have been to the club on weekends, and was told the ranges were closed due to courses.

[PeterParker357]

Yep I look all the time. Some of those classes cancel a week before and never happen. If you were told that you could not shoot on a range it could have only happened on a day of women on target, youth shoot, raffle or work day. The ranges are never all closed otherwise! If someone told you all ranges were closed because of classes they were wrong it has never happened.

[griz6733]

in response to your comments about the may membership meeting with the member bringing up the questions to the board it tuns out that he is not a member and there in no record of him being in the membership database for the last three years even though he has been seen here shooting on a regular basis.when asked to respond about this he declined and hasn't been back since.it would be great if you would post the truths of the club and not just heresay. the club is moving forward in a very positive way, making improvements and moving forward despite all the negative response.i'm at the club almost every weekend and i have not been there that i couldn't shoot class or no class.the trap shoots on thursday nights have record number of shooters attending.indoor pistol opened back up this week and the few shooters that showed up were amazed with the new indoor range which was constructed on the last work day.it would be great if you would come out and volunteer for anything at the club or a work day and see first hand how the club is constantly improving and not just set back and dwell on all the negative crap that you are obviously being told.