Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Lost my LTCF... now what?

    Idk when, Idk how, but I lost my LTCF card somewhere... cant find it. Searched high and low.

    This was my first LTCF, issued from Allegheny County several years ago.

    I now live in Westmoreland Co. I called the Westmoreland Co. sheriffs office and explained situation and was told this....

    - I need to come to the Westmoreland Co courthouse now that I live in Westmoreland and need to fill out a new form for a new LTCF. It would be processed same day. $20. It would not be a "renewal", it would just be like a brand new LTCF.

    - I can not longer carry concealed because I do not physically have my card. I can still OC if I choose to do so.


    Did the deputy I spoke with have his facts straight? If not, what should be my next move?

    I would think I could still CC even without my card being present. I have driven a car several times without my "papers" on me...

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Nucking Futs; July 18th, 2014 at 02:13 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Lost my LTCF... now what?

    It does not seem to be specifically addressed in the code. There are several older threads on this subject. Google "Lost PA LTCF" and it will link back to the PAFOA threads. In the mean time, below is the PA code. (11) and (12) come close but don't address the issue specifically. Personally, I would avoid CCW until I found the LTCF or got a replacement. I can just imagine the BS one would have to go through if caught without it.

    18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
    (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
    (1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
    (2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.
    (3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.
    (4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.
    (5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
    (6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.
    (7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.
    (8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.
    (9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
    (10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.
    (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.
    (12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.
    (13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.
    (14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).
    (15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:
    (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.
    (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.
    (16) Any person holding a license in accordance with section 6109(f)(3).
    (c) Sportsman's firearm permit.--
    (1) Before any exception shall be granted under paragraph (b)(9) or (10) of this section to any person 18 years of age or older licensed to hunt, trap or fish or who has been issued a permit relating to hunting dogs, such person shall, at the time of securing his hunting, furtaking or fishing license or any time after such license has been issued, secure a sportsman's firearm permit from the county treasurer. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be issued immediately and be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a period of five years from the date of issue for any legal firearm, when carried in conjunction with a valid hunting, furtaking or fishing license or permit relating to hunting dogs. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be in triplicate on a form to be furnished by the Pennsylvania State Police. The original permit shall be delivered to the person, and the first copy thereof, within seven days, shall be forwarded to the Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police by the county treasurer. The second copy shall be retained by the county treasurer for a period of two years from the date of expiration. The county treasurer shall be entitled to collect a fee of not more than $6 for each such permit issued, which shall include the cost of any official form. The Pennsylvania State Police may recover from the county treasurer the cost of any such form, but may not charge more than $1 for each official permit form furnished to the county treasurer.
    (2) Any person who sells or attempts to sell a sportsman's firearm permit for a fee in excess of that amount fixed under this subsection commits a summary offense.
    (d) Revocation of registration.--Any registration of a firearm under subsection (c) of this section may be revoked by the county treasurer who issued it, upon written notice to the holder thereof.
    (e) Definitions.--
    (1) For purposes of subsection (b)(3), (4), (5), (7) and (8), the term "firearm" shall include any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of the weapon.
    (2) As used in this section, the phrase "place of instruction" shall include any hunting club, rifle club, rifle range, pistol range, shooting range, the premises of a licensed firearms dealer or a lawful gun show or meet.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Lost my LTCF... now what?

    Next move go to westmoreland and get your LTCF. Your not hard headed are you? stay out of trouble now.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Lost my LTCF... now what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunsnwater View Post
    Next move go to westmoreland and get your LTCF. Your not hard headed are you? stay out of trouble now.
    I have to agree. Nucking Futs - Do you really want to jeopardize your LTCF for $20?
    "A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington (January 17th, 1790)
    Criminals obey "gun control" laws in the same manner politicians follow their oaths of office!
    ..: TO SERVE AND PROTECT! Positive Stories :..


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Lost my LTCF... now what?

    Did you make a copy of it? Me personally I would carry the copy and get to the courthouse ASAP.

    While there are no provisions in 6106 specifically related to a lost licence. There are for expired ones whiten 60 days also carrying without one but being eligible is a non prohibiting M1.

    I would hope if it came to a stop, arrest, and court date that proving you simply did not have the card would be enough not to convict you. I would hope at least. I'm not saying it would work out this way.

    I would CC, very well, drive like a granny on her way to Sunday church, and keep my copy in my wallet. That is what I personally would do and I have a copy.
    "No, it's just a machine. I'm the weapon." - Jack Harper in Oblivion

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Lost my LTCF... now what?

    Now you tell them you moved and give them your old address and tell them its a NEW address. Theyll issue you a "changed" address LTCF for $5.
    Emergency Medicine prevents natural selection

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Lost my LTCF... now what?

    The problem is Sheriff offices commonly revoke your LTCF when you tell them you lost it. Not as any sort of punishment, just as a procedure. I guess so somebody else won't use it, or just to deactivate it. If they did that, you better not carry. I'm not even sure I'd trust them to tell me for sure whether they did it or not. If they said, "No," I'd want it in writing like an email or something. With that in hand I'd keep a low profile.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Lost my LTCF... now what?

    Doing a quick search led to this thread:

    http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/608...your-ltcf.html

    That quotes:
    18 Pa.C.S. § 6122: Proof of license and exception

    (a) General rule.--When carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle, an individual licensed to carry a firearm shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection. Failure to produce such license either at the time of arrest or at the preliminary hearing shall create a rebuttable presumption of nonlicensure.

    (b) Exception.--An individual carrying a firearm on or about his person or in a vehicle and claiming an exception under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce satisfactory evidence of qualification for exception.
    So, the exception seems to give you an out if you can "provide satisfactory evidence of qualification", but if you can't locate your LTCF, that may be tough to do. I would imagine the issuing Sheriff would have records of issued LTCFs, but I wouldn't bet losing my rights on it.

    My opinion, just go get your new LTCF and be done worrying.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Lost my LTCF... now what?

    You're on the opposite side of Pittsburg from where you got your license. You could call the Sheriff's office from the original location and ask if you can get a new copy. Buttttt I believe when you move you are supposed to register the change of address anyhow, so you were probably technically breaking a rule to start with. I'd try to get another copy and then submit a change of address with the new sheriff office.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Lost my LTCF... now what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mabuz View Post
    Doing a quick search led to this thread:

    http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/608...your-ltcf.html

    That quotes:


    So, the exception seems to give you an out if you can "provide satisfactory evidence of qualification", but if you can't locate your LTCF, that may be tough to do. I would imagine the issuing Sheriff would have records of issued LTCFs, but I wouldn't bet losing my rights on it.

    My opinion, just go get your new LTCF and be done worrying.
    No, that's an incorrect interpretation. If you have an LTCF, you have to show the LTCF upon lawful demand.

    The other paragraph relates to people who are exempt from the LTCF requirement, it has no application to licensed persons.

    So far as the OP's issue: You are licensed until it expires or is revoked. You can be hassled for being unable to provide the physical LTCF, but you're not guilty of unlicensed carry just because you lost the card. If it's revoked, the sheriff is required to send notice by certified mail to your last provided address (if you move, that's a good reason to update your address with the sheriff, via certified mail yourself.)

    It's not clear whether the penalty for failing to show the card after a lawful demand is the rebuttable presumption at trial, or something worse, like the default penalty for violation of the UFA.

    Make a copy, folks. Keep the copy someplace safe, for just such a contingency.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

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