Lost my LTCF... now what?

[Kurt_D]

@ Soberbyker...

I wonder if there have been or will be any changes to LTCF policy since McGinn is gone? I've heard nothing about the new sheriff in town. However, my spousal unit will (finally) be applying for hers in a week or so and I'll attempt to pass on any impressions I have of the current process.

The reason for her loooong delay in applying (quite a few years) is that she works at an EXTREMELY liberal college in the area and has concerns about the sheriff's office contacting them about her employment and the resulting problems that may ensue.

[STBear]

I recently renewed my LTCF in Delco under the new sheriff. Prompt reminder letter and issued in less than three weeks. No references called. Same for a friend. Not sure what if they are calling references on new LTCF applications.

[BimmerJon]

Well I ended up going to the county sheriffs office unarmed (weird feeling) and got my new LTCF.

Crisis averted. Thread closed.

You now have a revocation on your record

In case you apply for another CCW/LTCF in PA or another state, make sure to answer truthfully that you've been revoked before

Doesn't hurt to have some sort of documentation on the reason for the revoked record

[Kurt_D]

You now have a revocation on your record

In case you apply for another CCW/LTCF in PA or another state, make sure to answer truthfully that you've been revoked before

Doesn't hurt to have some sort of documentation on the reason for the revoked record

On the PA application for an LTCF, there is no question relating to having had an LTCF revoked - other states may differ.

Also, for lack of any statement by Nucking Futs that his original was revoked, it does not appear that there may be revocation on record. Unless he has been issued a formal notice of revocation per 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 (i) Revocation, he doesn't need to mention it at all.

[soberbyker]

You now have a revocation on your record

In case you apply for another CCW/LTCF in PA or another state, make sure to answer truthfully that you've been revoked before

Doesn't hurt to have some sort of documentation on the reason for the revoked record

Can't speak toward other PA sheriffs, but did you read my wife's story as I outlined? No revocation mentioned and her DELCO renewal went flawlessly.

My wife lost her purse a few years ago, inside, among other things, the PA LTCF issued by DELCO.

The DELCO sheriff made her go through the entire process again as if she never had one. The "duplicate" box was not checked when she got her "2nd" LTCF.

For those who assume the lost LTCF is revoked, it's not, at least not in DELCO. When the first (lost) LTCF was about to expire she got a renewal letter from DELCO. Not having it anymore she simply ignored it.

Two years later she got the renewal notice for LTCF #2, she went through the renewal process without ever mentioning LTCF # 1. She got #2 renewed with no problem.

[soberbyker]

@ Soberbyker...

I wonder if there have been or will be any changes to LTCF policy since McGinn is gone? I've heard nothing about the new sheriff in town. However, my spousal unit will (finally) be applying for hers in a week or so and I'll attempt to pass on any impressions I have of the current process.

The reason for her loooong delay in applying (quite a few years) is that she works at an EXTREMELY liberal college in the area and has concerns about the sheriff's office contacting them about her employment and the resulting problems that may ensue.

My wife's renewal was this month, start to finish was about 3 weeks. Nothing different as far as I could tell.

[BimmerJon]

Well... I've read the LTCF computer software manual with my own eyes and it clearly states that there is no "button" for reprints...

I guess the sheriff could just issue you a new one and you'd have two LTCF on the books (two unique numbers)... But there is no "button" in the system to reprint an existing license

Speaking to the Delco sheriff, they always revoke your existing before giving you a new one since they fear someone will "find" your lost LTCF and try to use it.

I'm open to others views but I've both spoken to the Delco Sheriff myself and read the LTCF computer manual (program is standardized in PA for all counties

[GunLawyer001]

On the PA application for an LTCF, there is no question relating to having had an LTCF revoked - other states may differ.

Also, for lack of any statement by Nucking Futs that his original was revoked, it does not appear that there may be revocation on record. Unless he has been issued a formal notice of revocation per 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 (i) Revocation, he doesn't need to mention it at all.

I have to agree, the process for a "revocation" involves a statutory basis for revocation, a certified letter, and an appeal option.

What some sheriffs appear to be doing should more properly be called "voiding" or "cancelling" a particular license, for the purpose of replacing a lost license, or perhaps when you renew before the previous one has quite expired.

I would feel comfortable stating that my LTCF had never been "revoked" if it was simply being replaced, if the sheriff had never gone through the statutory process of revocation.

This is more than just parsing words; I wouldn't say that I don't have a "permit to carry" just because the statute uses the word "license". This is fundamentally deeper, a "revocation" implies that it was for cause, that you did something bad and became disqualified. Just voiding out one card and replacing it is a substantially different thing, and the sheriffs should probably use a different term for it.

[streaker69]

I realize this might be opening Pandora's box, but would it a good idea to get those overpaid seat warmers in Harrisburg to update the UFA to include a process for lost licenses so that every county (except Philly) would be doing the same thing?

[BimmerJon]

I have to agree, the process for a "revocation" involves a statutory basis for revocation, a certified letter, and an appeal option.

What some sheriffs appear to be doing should more properly be called "voiding" or "cancelling" a particular license, for the purpose of replacing a lost license, or perhaps when you renew before the previous one has quite expired.

I would feel comfortable stating that my LTCF had never been "revoked" if it was simply being replaced, if the sheriff had never gone through the statutory process of revocation.

This is more than just parsing words; I wouldn't say that I don't have a "permit to carry" just because the statute uses the word "license". This is fundamentally deeper, a "revocation" implies that it was for cause, that you did something bad and became disqualified. Just voiding out one card and replacing it is a substantially different thing, and the sheriffs should probably use a different term for it.

agreed with all of this but my two replies



1. A Sheriff can call it anything they want, but if the computer has two buttons; issue and revoke... It doesn't matter what they call it "offline"
You were revoked as far as anyone is concerned in the system

2. Sure, there is a process and lawful standards when revoking someone...
Just like the Sheriff is lawfully required to mail out LTCF expiration notices, its a crime for Sheriffs to charge more than 20 dollars for the LTCF and state police are lawfully required to delete all sales records within 72 hours...

How's all that working out in real life?