Rifle OC in State Forest?

[StingyGunner]

I read this thread ( http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...tate-Forest-OC ) and decided to investigate further. Am I to understand that OC'ing a pistol is legal in a state forest, yet anyone under 21 may not do so if it would require transport inside a vehicle beforehand, but that a rifle would be both legal to OC in a state forest AND transport in a vehicle for someone under 21? Thanks for any enlightenment you can provide.

[customloaded]

I read this thread ( http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...tate-Forest-OC ) and decided to investigate further. Am I to understand that OC'ing a pistol is legal in a state forest, yet anyone under 21 may not do so if it would require transport inside a vehicle beforehand, but that a rifle would be both legal to OC in a state forest AND transport in a vehicle for someone under 21? Thanks for any enlightenment you can provide.

I am not a lawyer nor other legal expert but the way you ask the question and what limited knowledge I have, yes, you are correct.

However, in Pennsylvania, it is my understanding and I may have it wrong, but, it shall be prima facie evidence of poaching if one is carrying a loaded long arm, regardless of circumstances or purpose. Hunting and self protection laws contradict each other some times.

Research this issue for yourself or consult an attorney who specializes in PA wildlife law.

Best of luck,

CL

[R L Suehr]

Well, it would seem that just possession of said firearm could be construed as Prima facie evidence of hunting if the officer wanted to pursue it. The actual law makes no mention of loaded or unloaded.

Sec. 2301. Prima facie evidence of hunting.
(a) General rule.--For the purpose of this title, any one of the following acts shall constitute prima facie evidence of hunting:
(1) Possession of any firearm, bow and arrow, raptor, trap or other device of any description usable for the purpose of hunting or taking game or wildlife.
(2) Possession of the carcass or any part or parts of any game or wildlife.
(3) Pursuing game or wildlife in any manner prohibited by this title or commission regulation.
(b) Lawful cooperation or assistance.--Notwithstanding any other provision of this title to the contrary, any person who has lawfully taken the bag or season limit for a particular species of game or wildlife or any person who meets the requirements of section 2701(c) (relating to license requirements) may aid, assist, abet or cooperate in any manner specified by this title or commission regulations with another person who is engaged in any lawful activity permitted by this title or the regulations of the commission.
Cross References. Section 2301 is referred to in section 2325 of this title.

It would seem that if you have a valid LTCF though it is legal to carry a firearm loaded or unloaded for self protection. Now do they consider the long gun a firearm or not.

Sec. 2525. Possession of firearm for protection of self or others.
(a) General rule.—It is lawful for a law enforcement officer or any person who possesses a valid license to carry a firearm issued under 18 Pa C.S. Section 6109 (relating to licenses) to be in possession of a loaded or unloaded firearm while engaged in any activity regulated by this title.(b) Construction.
(1) This section shall supersede any prohibition on the possession of firearms or ammunition contained in any other provision of this title.
(2) This subsection shall not be construed to permit the hunting or harvesting of any wildlife with a firearm or ammunition not otherwise permitted by this title.
(c) Definitions.—As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
"Firearm." As defined in 18 Pa C.S. §6102 (relating to definitions).
"Law enforcement officer." As defined in 18 Pa C.S. §6102 (relating to definitions).

It seems they mention Title 18 sec 6102 as there definition of firearm for this purpose. Here is that definition:

"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

So by definition what they are talking about is a pistol or SBR. That is what the definition of firearm is under 6102.

So IANAL first off.
I would say that looking at the statutes above you could be charged with illegally hunting for carrying a long gun in a state forrest. I don't know if a PAGC officer would charge you for this but it would be a real possibility and would probably hold up in court.

Again that is my non-lawyer take on it. Maybe someone more informed on Game Codes will find something different.

[heatheroo]

just buy a hunting license. If asked by a WCO, tell him/her you are hunting coyotes. With a few exceptions, you can hunt 'yotes 24/7 year round.

[Steve in PA]

It's been covered before, it takes more than the mere carry/possession of a firearm in order to prove a prima facia case of hunting.

If the mere possession were enough, then everyone driving a motor vehicle on a nice, slow ride through the countryside could be considered "road hunting".

[knight0334]

The possession of the rifle, or any other gun for that matter, would be prima facie evidence of "hunting". But to violate that section of law you have to be in the act of, or appearing to be in the act of, hunting or poaching. There needs to be obvious evidence like certain overt acts - like stalking, sitting to ambush, tracking game, etc, etc.

If you're hiking, depending on how you're carrying the gun, it may look like you're hunting/poaching - then the gun itself would solidify a WCO's charges.

If the mere possession of a gun is complete prima facie evidence, then merely possessing one within your home would constitute hunting/poaching. ....and that is how a few of PA's Common Pleas Courts have ruled.

Generally it isn't a wise thing to do on public grounds like parks or forests. It is one thing to patrol your own property lines with a rifle, and you could easily argue that is all you were doing in court. But to argue against an illegal hunting/poaching charge on public grounds will be an uphill battle that you will likely lose. ...and lose your gun.

[StingyGunner]

I simply don't see how securing an unloaded AR variant to a backpack while backpacking (no hunting gear, suitable or legal rifle for hunting [IMHO], suitable ammunition for hunting) could be held up in court as evidence of hunting. Rather, the only lawful means of adequate self defense allowed in PA. Also, would being charged with such an infraction result in, well, charges?... or a fine?

Perhaps I'll call the highest PAGC office possible and ask about it. Terrible law, and terrible PAGC officers for even enforcing such asininity. I'm no lawyer, but this law is de facto conviction.

[Greywolf]

I simply don't see how securing an unloaded AR variant to a backpack while backpacking (no hunting gear, suitable or legal rifle for hunting [IMHO], suitable ammunition for hunting) could be held up in court as evidence of hunting.

Do you understand what "prima facie" means?

[Manxdriver]

Try this: carry an AR15, with a thirty round magazine. While carrying a rifle MAY be prima facia evidence of hunting, THAT could/would/SHOULD be nullified by the choice of rifle. Since the AR15 is ILLEGAL for ALL hunting in Pa, even the stupidest Game Warden would have to KNOW you weren't hunting.

[Manxdriver]

Do you understand what "prima facie" means?

"on the face of" .


Your point?