Tom Wolf is not your grandpappy's Democrat

[vinlander]

Please excuse me for not merging this with the other "Tom Wolf" threads, but it doesn't really fit in there and it's long.

Pennsylvania gun owners are a mixed bunch, both major parties are strongly represented, as is hunters who don't really care about hand guns or AR-15s. I will go out on a limb and say that even the latter group will eventually be affected by someone like Tom Wolf as governor.

All of us, including gun-owning members of the Democratic party, hunters, and gun collectors should care about not having Tom Wolf as governor and Mike Stack as Lt. Governor, here's why.

I grew up in a progressive Socialist Democracy in Europe, where politicians candidly speak about where they lean. Phrases like "Old Guard Marxist" are openly used to describe one-self in the political process, and there are several parties which include "Socialist" in the name. Everyone in this segment of the political spectrum describe themselves as "Progressives" and their policies are indistinguishable those American Democratic Party politicians who describe themselves as "Progressives", including Tom Wolf (he wrote a piece on DailyKos about how he wanted to bring the "Progressive Agenda" to Pennsylvania, look it up.)

These European parties came to power backed by labor unions and have run the political process with an iron fist since then.

So what is a "Progressive" really?

People associate Socialism, Marxism, and Communism with bloody revolutions to overthrow a government or empire, in order to institute a People's state or republic. Throughout history these never lasted very long, because evil sociopaths had an easy time subverting such a system for their own uses.

Enter the Progressive movement, who instead effectuate change gradually (progressively) over time, but with an eye toward the same naive goal. Naive because the end result will be the same, only take longer to crumble. Look at most of Northern Europe where welfare states are struggling after 2-3 generations, because the takers are starting to (progressively) outnumber the producers (who pay for the welfare state.)

If you believe in your natural right to own a gun for sport, self defense, etc., regardless of your political affiliation, then you should care about this. The pattern of outlawing guns (and eventually other potential weapons) is the same in every single Progressive Socialist Democracy in the world. I've witnessed it first hand and it's happening here.

It goes something like this (all real world examples of progressive European weapon laws):

1. First ban "especially dangerous" guns, like machine guns and (real) assault rifles, except for people licensed to use them for sport.
2. Then ban handguns, except for people licensed to use them for sport.
3. Then limit hunting guns to bolt action rifles and shotguns.
4. Then institute a system of licensing and permits to further limit hunting and sports gun usage. Recurring yearly registration and proof that you are still participating in your gun sport of choice, or forfeit your legally owned guns.
5. Limit all hunting guns to internal magazine only, limit internal capacity to one in the chamber, and one in the magazine.
5. Place a limit on how many guns you may own, require an expensive safe, and allow police to inspect your home at any time without a warrant to see if you're in compliance.
6. Crack down on which shooting sports are acceptable, for instance with rules about if you are allowed to move during a particular sport (think 3gun.)
7. Completely ban semi-automatic rifles and handguns, since no sports exist that use them.
8. Create rules that say how much ammunition you may acquire every year (with a background check) and how much you're allowed to store in your home.
9. Ban "especially powerful" (.22 and up) air guns, as well as sling shots, one hand opening pocket knives, swords (without a permit), crossbows, compound bows, pepper spray, and tasers.

Do it slowly enough, and each generation will think this is the normal state of things, and not get too upset when yet another thing is banned or restricted. I grew up not questioning my lack of right to properly defend myself, and thinking that of course only the Police should have guns for my own protection. Then I moved here and learned things about history that were never taught to me (because Progressives ran the public schools.)

Until then I thought most of these regulations were quite OK. Sure I'd be aggravated when people were put in jail for defending their lives, but I never really questioned it beyond that initial reaction. I was a brain-washed slave.

This is the Progressive way, and people like Tom Wolf openly and freely admits to it, where they think only those who agree with their alleged final outcome of total equality will hear or see it.

To those Democrats out there who think this is not happening, look at who gets on the ballot for the Democratic Party and who does not. Look at which Democratic legislators are ridiculed and frozen out of every committee or discussion in the state legislatures, as well as in Congress, for having opinions that were OK for Democrats to have 20 years ago.

To those hunters who think they are safe, you're not. Eventually hunting will be a dead sport and at that moment your registered and licensed deer rifle, or duck gun will be legally taken from you by law enforcement who can legally come into your house and open your government mandated safe. This is reality all over the world today.

[John222]

Please excuse me for not merging this with the other "Tom Wolf" threads, but it doesn't really fit in there and it's long.

Pennsylvania gun owners are a mixed bunch, both major parties are strongly represented, as is hunters who don't really care about hand guns or AR-15s. I will go out on a limb and say that even the latter group will eventually be affected by someone like Tom Wolf as governor.

All of us, including gun-owning members of the Democratic party, hunters, and gun collectors should care about not having Tom Wolf as governor and Mike Stack as Lt. Governor, here's why.

I grew up in a progressive Socialist Democracy in Europe, where politicians candidly speak about where they lean. Phrases like "Old Guard Marxist" are openly used to describe one-self in the political process, and there are several parties which include "Socialist" in the name. Everyone in this segment of the political spectrum describe themselves as "Progressives" and their policies are indistinguishable those American Democratic Party politicians who describe themselves as "Progressives", including Tom Wolf (he wrote a piece on DailyKos about how he wanted to bring the "Progressive Agenda" to Pennsylvania, look it up.)

These European parties came to power backed by labor unions and have run the political process with an iron fist since then.

So what is a "Progressive" really?

People associate Socialism, Marxism, and Communism with bloody revolutions to overthrow a government or empire, in order to institute a People's state or republic. Throughout history these never lasted very long, because evil sociopaths had an easy time subverting such a system for their own uses.

Enter the Progressive movement, who instead effectuate change gradually (progressively) over time, but with an eye toward the same naive goal. Naive because the end result will be the same, only take longer to crumble. Look at most of Northern Europe where welfare states are struggling after 2-3 generations, because the takers are starting to (progressively) outnumber the producers (who pay for the welfare state.)

If you believe in your natural right to own a gun for sport, self defense, etc., regardless of your political affiliation, then you should care about this. The pattern of outlawing guns (and eventually other potential weapons) is the same in every single Progressive Socialist Democracy in the world. I've witnessed it first hand and it's happening here.

It goes something like this (all real world examples of progressive European weapon laws):

1. First ban "especially dangerous" guns, like machine guns and (real) assault rifles, except for people licensed to use them for sport.
2. Then ban handguns, except for people licensed to use them for sport.
3. Then limit hunting guns to bolt action rifles and shotguns.
4. Then institute a system of licensing and permits to further limit hunting and sports gun usage. Recurring yearly registration and proof that you are still participating in your gun sport of choice, or forfeit your legally owned guns.
5. Limit all hunting guns to internal magazine only, limit internal capacity to one in the chamber, and one in the magazine.
5. Place a limit on how many guns you may own, require an expensive safe, and allow police to inspect your home at any time without a warrant to see if you're in compliance.
6. Crack down on which shooting sports are acceptable, for instance with rules about if you are allowed to move during a particular sport (think 3gun.)
7. Completely ban semi-automatic rifles and handguns, since no sports exist that use them.
8. Create rules that say how much ammunition you may acquire every year (with a background check) and how much you're allowed to store in your home.
9. Ban "especially powerful" (.22 and up) air guns, as well as sling shots, one hand opening pocket knives, swords (without a permit), crossbows, compound bows, pepper spray, and tasers.

Do it slowly enough, and each generation will think this is the normal state of things, and not get too upset when yet another thing is banned or restricted. I grew up not questioning my lack of right to properly defend myself, and thinking that of course only the Police should have guns for my own protection. Then I moved here and learned things about history that were never taught to me (because Progressives ran the public schools.)

Until then I thought most of these regulations were quite OK. Sure I'd be aggravated when people were put in jail for defending their lives, but I never really questioned it beyond that initial reaction. I was a brain-washed slave.

This is the Progressive way, and people like Tom Wolf openly and freely admits to it, where they think only those who agree with their alleged final outcome of total equality will hear or see it.

To those Democrats out there who think this is not happening, look at who gets on the ballot for the Democratic Party and who does not. Look at which Democratic legislators are ridiculed and frozen out of every committee or discussion in the state legislatures, as well as in Congress, for having opinions that were OK for Democrats to have 20 years ago.

To those hunters who think they are safe, you're not. Eventually hunting will be a dead sport and at that moment your registered and licensed deer rifle, or duck gun will be legally taken from you by law enforcement who can legally come into your house and open your government mandated safe. This is reality all over the world today.

So, you know this to be Tom Wolfs agenda. Give me a break.

[clarencecoffee]

Well said Vinlander. To hear this from someone with your background and experience is inspiring

[vinlander]

So, you know this to be Tom Wolfs agenda. Give me a break.

Read my post again. This is my personal experience with messages from politicians who claim to support the exact same policies that Wolf (and others, not just Democrats either) do.

The rest of his agenda fits, look up the articles he has written on-line and what sites he wrote them on. They are linked in one of the other Tom Wolf threads. He has already pledged support for some gun-control, his most likely Lt. Governor certainly has in his TV ads.

Beyond that, you cannot see any of these policies in a vacuum. Anyone in favor of a socialized healthcare system for instance, will also be in favor of banning what they see as dangerous or risky behavior and items. Like Bloomberg's crusade against Big Gulps, cigarettes, and baby formula. When government is tasked with spending tax income on healthcare, they also get a say in how much risk you're allowed to partake in. Even if that risk is exclusive to you, by your own decisions.

I've seen the list of gun control in my OP unfold over a couple of decades, always pushed and enacted by politicians who claimed the exact same agenda, for your own good (unless you like the idea of individual freedom.)

It may not happen as quickly here. The US is a large and diverse country, but Progressive policy strive to dictate what you're allowed to do in every aspect of your life, where up until now it has been about the few things you're NOT allowed to do.

Government is a necessary part of life, and so are laws and rules. But it's a balancing act and the more influence you give government in one part of your life, the more it will demand in another. History, even in this country, shows you this is true. Rarely do legislators repeal laws, certainly not at anywhere near the rate they write new ones.

Why take a chance on someone who cannot give you a straight answer or who outright support this policy?

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

Vinlander, great post! Do you mind if I pinch your point by point analysis to use in a "progressive de-programming" process? Thanks!

Regards, Jim

[vinlander]

Greetings,

Vinlander, great post! Do you mind if I pinch your point by point analysis to use in a "progressive de-programming" process? Thanks!

Regards, Jim

Jim, if you can use my experiences and opinions to sway a vote, please do so. It's why I wrote this post.

My opinion on gun-control has shifted over the past few years, but it hasn't been an unreasonable or uninformed change. Rather I was blind and uninformed about the history of the world and of this country in particular to understand the problems with Progressive policies, especially on gun-control.

Europeans don't understand why Americans consider themselves free, and why certain cornerstones in the Constitution keep them free. They don't know what the 2nd Amendment is, or why it exists, they simply think that the Americans' access to guns is a lapse in legislation without questioning the benefits or reasons behind it.

I considered myself free in Europe, and I had to live for a couple of years in the US to understand why Americans are much more free than Europeans. The freedom I used to have looks like slavery in comparison, and is solely dependent on conditioning.

A human being will only recognize true freedom when experiencing it or when it's being taken away. And to my horror, millions of Americans don't know what they have, and worse are actively pining for what looks like a great idea on the surface, but are really means of taking the freedom they take for granted away.

I'm not saying politicians like Wolf are evil geniuses, plotting to enslave you, it's just an inevitable byproduct of their good intentions.

[wanneroo]

So, you know this to be Tom Wolfs agenda. Give me a break.

Yes, he's on record with a litany of gun regulations, confiscation and control.

[qmcorps]

[QUOTE=vinlander;2733888]Please excuse me for not merging this with the other "Tom Wolf" threads, but it doesn't really fit in there and it's long./QUOTE]

Excellent analysis, Sir. Rep sent.

[priell3]

Great post. Thanks.

I'll be passing it around.

[hog45]

Well I posted this in one of the other Tom Wolf threads, where it was relevant, but I think it is more relevant here. Not sure what the rules are for posting the same thing in two different threads. Hopefully I don't get banned.

Here is what President Obama said in 2008 when he was campaigning for president about guns.
When it comes to guns in this country, you’ve got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot...

Here is Michael Bloomberg “Nobody’s going to keep you from hunting or target practice..."

Here is Hillary Clinton: “You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. It’s part of culture. It’s part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because it’s an important part of who they are."

Here is the Dianne Feinstein gun control law introduced last year, directly from the summary at the bottom of the bill "Protect legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by exempting more than 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting and sporting purposes..."

Here is Tom Wolf, as quoted by others in this thread "Pennsylvania has a long history of responsible gun ownership and hunting. My business - like those throughout York County -- used to close on the first day of hunting season. I support the Second Amendment and the right of law abiding Pennsylvanians to own guns...

Here is a very simple rule of translating political speech for anyone who isn't sure when to trust a politician on the subject of the second amendment. If, instead of talking about your inalienable right to keep and carry, they change the subject to talk about hunting, then they aren't talking about the 2nd Amendment and they are not your friend. That is the simple rule of gun politics.