Concealed carrying citizen saves woman

[Takem]

It was in Texas. Dragging the woman across the parking lot when a man intervened.
http://www.khou.com/news/crime/Armed...257091061.html

[Subverto]

Is purse snatching a felony? If not, I don't believe it's legal to deploy a firearm to stop it. Regardless of if he was actually going to shoot them or not, a firearm can only be legally deployed if lethal force is warranted, no?

[amnesia]

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HOUSTON — A mother out with her two children to go shopping became the victim of would-be purse snatchers, but a good Samaritan armed with a gun came to the rescue.

“It happened so fast,” said Brenda Vasquez, who manages the Family Dollar store in the 3400 block of Orlando Avenue in northeast Houston.

She witnessed the assault.

“This lady opens her car door, grabs the woman’s purse and they reverse. While they’re trying to reverse, the lady is holding on to her purse still, chasing them all the way to the middle.”

That’s when a perfect stranger intervened. He happened to be in his car in the parking lot when it happened.

“And that good Samaritan came out, drew his weapon and scared them. And that’s when he pulled them out of the car.”

Someone snapped a picture of the man holding the two suspects at bay. A few minutes later, police arrived and took the male and female suspects into custody.

The man who first confronted them purchased some candy for his kids and drove away.

“The guy is something else,” said Vasquez. “He’s a hero.”

Police were not releasing the names of either the good Samaritan or the victim.

No one was injured.

[Mitch10mm]

Is purse snatching a felony? If not, I don't believe it's legal to deploy a firearm to stop it. Regardless of if he was actually going to shoot them or not, a firearm can only be legally deployed if lethal force is warranted, no?

They posed a threat of bodily harm or worse didn't they?

[tl_3237]

IMO, it is 'robbery' which is a felony in Pa (18 Pa CS 3701).

§ 3701. Robbery.

(a) Offense defined.--

(1) A person is guilty of robbery if, in the course of committing a theft, he:

...

(v) physically takes or removes property from the person of another by force however slight;

It would be considered a crime subject to a citizen's arrest and, furthermore, to effect that arrest:

We therefore hold that from this date forward the use of deadly force by a private person in order to prevent the escape of one who has 174*174 committed a felony or has joined or assisted in the commission of a felony is justified only if the felony committed is treason, murder, voluntary manslaughter, mayhem, arson, robbery, common law rape, common law burglary, kidnapping, assault with intent to murder, rape or rob, or a felony which normally causes or threatens death or great bodily harm.[

Commonwealth v. Chermansky, 430 Pa. 170 - Pa: Supreme Court 1968



That being said, hopefully the display of a firearm would be sufficient to detain the robber. I would not espouse actual discharge unless a life remains in danger.

[Subverto]

They posed a threat of bodily harm or worse didn't they?

It might just be a poorly worded article (as is typical these days), but it sounds like they grabbed her purse and then tried to drive away as the woman chased them. Texas law might be different, but I know in PA it is unlawful to deploy a firearm to protect someone's property (i.e. purse). Now if they were assaulting her, it's completely different.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the scumbags got arrested, and everything ended happily ever after. But I'd hate for someone to read this article and think it's legal to use their firearm to coerce a theif and then end up getting charges filed against them for it.

[BestDefense=StrongOffense]

Is purse snatching a felony? If not, I don't believe it's legal to deploy a firearm to stop it. Regardless of if he was actually going to shoot them or not, a firearm can only be legally deployed if lethal force is warranted, no?

Meh...they could've killed the lady (or anyone else, for that matter) with the way they were whipping that sled around. Besides that, I'm not familiar enough with Texas laws to say either way. Maybe Customloaded will stop by and offer some insight.

[Subverto]

IMO, it is 'robbery' which is a felony in Pa (18 Pa CS 3701).



It would be considered a crime subject to by a citizen's arrest and, furthermore, to effect that arrest:



Commonwealth v. Chermansky, 430 Pa. 170 - Pa: Supreme Court 1968



That being said, hopefully the display of a firearm would be sufficient to detain the robber. I would not espouse actual discharge unless a life remains in danger.

It seems this would be fully justified in PA. Thanks for the caselaw LT.

[djpup]

We therefore hold that from this date forward the use of deadly force by a private person in order to prevent the escape of one who has 174*174 committed a felony or has joined or assisted in the commission of a felony is justified only if the felony committed is treason, murder, voluntary manslaughter, mayhem, arson, robbery, common law rape, common law burglary, kidnapping, assault with intent to murder, rape or rob, or a felony which normally causes or threatens death or great bodily harm.[

Not a lawyer, but I would take this to mean that until you actually shoot someone, you are OK. Now I know you don't pull the weapon unless you are ready to do that, but still, does not " deadly force" mean the actual shooting, not the deployment of the weapon?

[tl_3237]

Meh...they could've killed the lady (or anyone else, for that matter) with the way they were whipping that sled around. Besides that, I'm not familiar enough with Texas laws to say either way. Maybe Customloaded will stop by and offer some insight.

It would seem to be at least felony theft under Texas Penal Code:

Sec. 31.03. THEFT.

(a) A person commits an offense if he unlawfully appropriates property with intent to deprive the owner of property.

(b) Appropriation of property is unlawful if:

(1) it is without the owner's effective consent;

...

(e) Except as provided by Subsection (f), an offense under this section is:

...

(4) a state jail felony if:

(B) regardless of value, the property is stolen from the person of another or from a human corpse or grave, including property that is a military grave marker;

-------------------------------------------------------
ETA:


Texas felonies are subject to citizen's arrest (TX Code of Criminal Procedure):

Art. 14.01. OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW. (a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.

The law gets murky as to the degree of force allowed for effecting the citizen's arrest

Sec. 9.51. ARREST AND SEARCH.

(b) A person other than a peace officer (or one acting at his direction) is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to make or assist in making a lawful arrest, or to prevent or assist in preventing escape after lawful arrest if, before using force, the actor manifests his purpose to and the reason for the arrest or reasonably believes his purpose and the reason are already known by or cannot reasonably be made known to the person to be arrested.

but, under the justification defense of TX Penal Code Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY, it does not seem actionable using deadly force by a bystander or the victim unless it raises to the level of robbery.