West Manheim Township to make shooting illegal.

[RugerNiner]

http://www.eveningsun.com/ci_9508814?source=most_viewed

The West Manheim Township supervisors are considering an ordinance that would make it illegal to shoot guns in residential areas of the township - something police say they have little control over under the existing rules.

And if such an ordinance is adopted, the supervisors said it also could be expanded to include other things that can be considered nuisances - such as noise from all-terrain vehicles during evening hours.

Brenda and Carl Grubb, of Impounding Dam Road, appeared Thursday night before the township Board of Supervisors to voice concerns about a neighbor they say shoots targets with a high-powered rifle day and night.

Brenda Grubb said she often has been awakened in the middle of the night by the shooting, with the most recent time being late in May at 12:04 a.m.

Then on Memorial Day, said Grubb, her husband and another family member were plowing farm fields on their tractors when the same neighbor began to shoot skeet - which is a type of projectile target often called clay pigeons. Pieces of the exploded targets rained down on the tractors and the men.

No one was injured, but the incident frayed a lot of nerves, Grubb said.

"I don't know what to do," Grubb said. "I can't take my children out riding on our horse because I'm afraid they're going to get shot. I'm even afraid to let the horse out in the pasture as it might get shot."

Grubb said the police were called, but she was told that while Pennsylvania laws say that

hunting is not allowed within 150 yards of a building, target shooting is a permissible activity.

"We are investigating the complaint but in the absence of someone getting hurt or shot there is little we can do," said West Manheim Police Chief Tim Hippensteel. "Based on our preliminary findings nothing in the state or township ordinance books addresses it."

Hippensteel said he has talked to the Grubbs' neighbor, who has agreed to limit his target shooting times and to stay away from the neighbor's property as much as possible.

"I have met with the individual and he says he wants to stay within the law," said Hippensteel.

However, the supervisors said the issue still needs to be addressed broadly since the township, which at one time primarily was farmland, is quickly becoming mostly a residential area.

"Even if he stops, we need protection for everyone else," said Supervisor Nils Parr. "We need to do something."

Solicitor Linus Fenicle told the board the township can adopt an ordinance that would make it illegal to shoot any guns, target or otherwise, in a residential area. Many such ordinances exist in other municipalities, said Fenicle, where such activity is treated as a summary criminal offense.

Supervisor Darrell Raubenstine said that if the township is going to work on such an ordinance, he would like to protect residential neighborhoods from too much noise as well.

"I would like to put in a noise ordinance as part of it because I know there are four-wheelers in that area going out at 12 midnight and 2 a.m.," said Raubenstine. "There is so much noise from them that people can't sleep."

The supervisors directed Fenicle to draw up a sample ordinance based on similar ones used in other municipalities.

The ordinance will be discussed at length at the supervisors' next work session and public meeting on Tuesday, June 17, at 6 p.m. at the township building at 2412 Baltimore Pike.

[WhiteFeather]

"We need to do something."

The standard cry of socialist busy bodies, with their all powerful government to abuse all the people, instead of targeting the few that are causing the problems.

Always the same line by the AG people, how a new orginal one, just to shake things up.

[sjohn26]

"Then on Memorial Day, said Grubb, her husband and another family member were plowing farm fields on their tractors when the same neighbor began to shoot skeet - which is a type of projectile target often called clay pigeons. Pieces of the exploded targets rained down on the tractors and the men."

Sorry, but if he's shooting so close so that clays and shot are coming down on me, I won't wait for an ordnance - I'm gonna walk over and whoop his ass.....then call the police!

[rev214]

Grubb said the police were called. . . .

Hippensteel said he has talked to the Grubbs' neighbor, who has agreed to limit his target shooting times and to stay away from the neighbor's property as much as possible.

"I have met with the individual and he says he wants to stay within the law," said Hippensteel.

However, the supervisors said the issue still needs to be addressed broadly since the township, which at one time primarily was farmland, is quickly becoming mostly a residential area.

IMHO, they could have talked to the neighbor FIRST and perhaps avoided the police call, since it at least sounds like the neighbor is willing to work out the situation privately...but by calling the police first, now you have government involved...and where there's government, there's more government to come...

[bige64]

Didnt a previous governor enact something that says an existing private gun range cannot be restricted by any future legislation by municiplaities?

Which in turn there is legally nothing anyone can do to this guy.

[ChamberedRound]

Didnt a previous governor enact something that says an existing private gun range cannot be restricted by any future legislation by municiplaities?

Which in turn there is legally nothing anyone can do to this guy.

Perhaps, but the problem is that those who own private property that's NOT classified as a range for business (like farmers, or those who own/bought land specifically to make a private range for shooting) would by such an ordinance be prevented from shooting on their own property.

[Statkowski]

Discharge of firearms within the township may be regulated by the township supervisors, as long as they have a self-defense clause in their ordinance. Let's hope they don't go hog wild and try to prohibit everything. Time for the gun-owning citizens to attend township meetings!

[tl_3237]

Title 35 P.S. Health and Safety (Refs & Annos)

Chapter 23A. Noise Pollution

§ 4501. General immunity for noise



All owners of rifle, pistol, silhouette, skeet, trap, blackpowder or other ranges in this Commonwealth shall be exempt and immune from any civil action or criminal prosecution in any matter relating to noise or noise pollution resulting from the normal and accepted shooting activity on ranges, provided that the owners of the ranges are in compliance with any applicable noise control laws or ordinances extant at the time construction of the range was initiated. If there were no noise control laws or ordinances extant at the time construction of the range was initiated, then the immunity granted by this act shall apply to said ranges."


§ 4502. Nuisances and injunction



The owners of the ranges shall not be subject to any action for nuisance, and no court in this Commonwealth shall enjoin the use or operation of the ranges on the basis of noise or noise pollution, provided that the owners of the ranges are in compliance with any applicable noise control laws or ordinances extant at the time construction of the range was initiated. If there were no noise control laws or ordinances extant at the time construction of the range was initiated, then the immunity granted by this act shall apply to said ranges.


The question is what is considered a 'range' to be afforded the protection. Also if there are projectiles leaving the confines of the property that is an entirely different matter.

[TaePo]

What I find interesting though:

Pieces of the exploded targets rained down on the tractors and the men.

It does not say anything about projectiles or shot raining down. Only the broken targets.

It could be the pigeons are thrown towards (perpindicular to) the other property and the shooter is shooting parallel to the property line and after breaking, the pieces continue on to the property but not the shot.

Still kind of close, though. I think that their main point is to reduce noise and the 'danger' may or may not be exaggerated.

[NRALIFEY]

Good evening everyone! I just found out about this site today and here I am!
This guy is on fire again in West Manheim Township. Tomorrow night 9/15/15 at the West Manheim Township meeting they are voting to advertise the ordinance for firearms. This is nonsense! The person complaining just needs to hire a lawyer and deal with trespassing issues instead of using tax paper dollars to try and solve his problem with the neighbor. I for one am very upset and need support here in West Manheim Township. If this ordinance passes, you won't even be able to use an air gun. Not cool!
The Township keeps catering to this guy and it needs to stop. Come show your support on the Township already having PA laws to follow. No need for the Township to adopt any.
West Manheim Township
2412 Baltimore Pike
Hanover PA 17331
Caucus is at 6 PM when they will probably go over the ordinance
The meeting is at 7 PM when they will vote to advertise to adopt the ordinance.