No Knock warrants, self defense, big issues

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[BimmerJon]

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Robbers pretending to be police is not uncommon

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Robbers pretending to be police is not uncommon

Covered in the OP. But you didn't provide any insight as to your response in this situation, or offer comments on defending against it.

[BimmerJon]

If I'm convinced its police I fully submit, get on the ground and scream there are kids in the house and I'm no threat
If my family is still harmed... Well...

If I'm not sure if its police and led to believe its a home invasion, I engage the threat. Police will typically not back down and that's a good sign its time to surrender. Robbers will scatter like rats

Bad situation all around. I'm 100% against no knock warrants and frankly if it takes cops getting killed to stop the practice, so be it .
Cops killing innocent home owners over wrong addresses sure isn't

Reinforce your house, install security cans/alarms and fortify egress areas.
Give yourself a couple extra mins to properly evaluate the situation

[Shisno]

I've thought about this a lot before and it is a horrible situation all around. If you have time, being able to look out your bedroom window for police cars would be a good idea.

I'm not a criminal and I don't expect my house to be raided by police at 2am. In fact it's more likely in my mind that I would be the victim of a home invasion than a wrong address warrant. If it's a home invasion and I fail to act, I'm going to die (most likely) and my family will have horrible things happen to them. Either after I'm dead or while I'm being forced to watch (worse). However, if it is a no knock warrant and I investigate with a gun (raised or lowered doesn't seem to matter to the police...), I will be shot and most likely killed, but most likely my family won't be harmed, well other than my dogs. So the more likely situation of a home invasion is IMO worse than the less likely situation of a no knock warrant. So I will act as if it is a worse case scenario.

Now, I hope nobody misconstrues that as me saying I will knowingly shoot police invading my home. I do not want to shoot police. And I'm also not going to be blindly shooting through doors or anything at an unidentified target. But I will be just a finger movement away from defending my family until I realize it is the police.

[jerkin]

If I'm convinced its police I fully submit, get on the ground and scream there are kids in the house and I'm no threat
If my family is still harmed... Well...

If I'm not sure if its police and led to believe its a home invasion, I engage the threat. Police will typically not back down and that's a good sign its time to surrender. Robbers will scatter like rats

Bad situation all around. I'm 100% against no knock warrants and frankly if it takes cops getting killed to stop the practice, so be it .
Cops killing innocent home owners over wrong addresses sure isn't

Reinforce your house, install security cans/alarms and fortify egress areas.
Give yourself a couple extra mins to properly evaluate the situation

Well... what??? By that time you are already on the ground, unarmed and under their control. They will do whatever they want to you and your family. I'm with you on the no knock warrants, I NEVER see a reason for them. 9 times out of 10 they are used for dope dealers so they don't have time to flush the evidence. Oh well, that evidence isn't worth someones life. If they are there to arrest someone there is no reason why they can't just wait outside until that person comes out.

Unfortunately I don't see them stopping until the people in charge are held on murder charges for any innocent people killed during the raid and forced to pay for their legal representation and any fines/damage/civil awards out of their pocket. Throw some of these clowns in jail and take their houses to pay for the damage they caused and watch how fast they stop using these tactics. You will never hear of kicking in the wrong door again either, instead of scrambling for some half assed warrant everything will be double and triple checked to be certain not to trample someones constitutional rights.

[ungawa]

Ever seen the Fourth of July? Rotate it 90°. It's going to look and sound something like that.

[BimmerJon]

Well... what??? By that time you are already on the ground, unarmed and under their control. They will do whatever they want to you and your family. I'm with you on the no knock warrants, I NEVER see a reason for them. 9 times out of 10 they are used for dope dealers so they don't have time to flush the evidence. Oh well, that evidence isn't worth someones life. If they are there to arrest someone there is no reason why they can't just wait outside until that person comes out.

Unfortunately I don't see them stopping until the people in charge are held on murder charges for any innocent people killed during the raid and forced to pay for their legal representation and any fines/damage/civil awards out of their pocket. Throw some of these clowns in jail and take their houses to pay for the damage they caused and watch how fast they stop using these tactics. You will never hear of kicking in the wrong door again either, instead of scrambling for some half assed warrant everything will be double and triple checked to be certain not to trample someones constitutional rights.

Well.... This is a public forum

[ray h]

I grab my firearm, ID the target as someone I don't know and try to kill as many invaders as I can before they get me.
Here's the thing, people lie, so in that situation I'm not believing anything they say.
I believe in what I see and what I know. What I see is armed people broke into my house in the middle of the night, what I know is I've done nothing illegal so those people shouldn't be the police.

[hog45]

Lets not make this more complicated than it is. The question you are asking is not much different from asking "What should I do if someone comes into my house uninvited?"

In any intruder situation you have a dozen variables. If someone just got into your house unexpected and uninvited, you have to ID the person immediately. Is it a relative? a friend of your kid? A stranger? A cop? Etc...

You do the best you can with the information you have, and hope nothing tragic happens. When you choose to own/carry a weapon, you MUST think through these issues and questions and do a gut check if you are truly prepared to pull a trigger on someone, and under what circumstances you would do so.

The most important thing in firearm safety is identifying your target. If you don't know what the muzzle is pointing at, you are doing it wrong. You must gather all the information as possible as quickly as possible and use that info to ID your target as best you can. If its a bunch of cops doing a no-knock entry, then its extremely dangerous for you and for them. If its your teenage kids coming home late, its extremely dangerous for you and for them. These situations are dangerous, and tragic things happen sometimes. That is the unfortunate reality of our world. No-knock police invasions are just one more variable to consider but they aren't a game changer. The game is always the same.

the one rule you MUST know is that you MUST identify your target before you shoot it. If its too dark and too confusing, then you do the best you can with the information you have and hope for the best. If its possible to hide or find cover while you gather more information, then do so. If not, then you do the best you can with the information you have. There is a case of a man who killed his daughter's boyfriend who sneaked in because he did not know the boy, and his daughter claimed not to know him. It is being discussed elsewhere on this forum right now. Its tragic, but you do the best you can with the information you have, and hope for the best. Gathering information quickly and accurately is your solution.

The best way to ID your target is BEFORE it gets into your house. The best way to do that is to have secure doors and a good security and monitoring system in place. Again, this is the best way to ID your target no matter what. Cops are just one more possibility, but not a game changer. Criminals lie, cops get wrong addresses, neighbors do dumb stuff, and random people do random stuff. Identifying your situation and making a quick decision is the best you can do. There is no way someone on this forum can give an answer to this question. It will be different every time for every situation.

Just do everything in your power to identify the target before shooting it. You may wind up being wrong, but there is nothing we can do about it on an internet forum.