Negative encounter at Malvern Drivers License Center with Police response.

[Bill67]

I was just at the Dublin license center today and I didn't notice any signs. I would assume Penn DOT locations are state owned and thus not allowed to restrict legal carrying of firearms. I mean Corbett's picture is up on the wall, it just doesn't seem like private property.

It sucks you had to disarm but you handled it well and you didn't lose your spot in line.

Interesting. I renewed in October and there was a sign on the door with the Red circle and a white gun with the line across it. I'll be driving over just to see.

[twency]

I was just at the Dublin license center today and I didn't notice any signs. I would assume Penn DOT locations are state owned and thus not allowed to restrict legal carrying of firearms. I mean Corbett's picture is up on the wall, it just doesn't seem like private property.

It sucks you had to disarm but you handled it well and you didn't lose your spot in line.

The state leases quite a bit of private property. I used to work in a state office in a large building containing several state agency bureaus. The building was privately owned but the office space was leased to the state. That's likely the same arrangement used for many of PennDOT's strip-mall locations.

[Pilot321]

If it is in a multi tenant strip center, it is leased, and the lease agreement, and property's rules, and regulations will determine what the lessee, and lessor can and cannot do. The no firearms sign may be allowed under the "Quiet Enjoyment" clause.

[Rotorwash]

Interesting. I renewed in October and there was a sign on the door with the Red circle and a white gun with the line across it. I'll be driving over just to see.

Just curious, but could it have been one of those stickers the "Moms" are putting on the doors of restaurants? Maybe an over zealous PennDot employee?

[MedicCop]

The driver's license center near my residence is posted the same way.

[Statkowski]

I sent this out to PennDOT on February 28th. No response yet.

Pennsylvania Department Of Transportation
1101 South Front Street
Harrisburg, PA 17104


Sirs:

It has been reported on the Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Association (PAFOA) website (www.forum.pafoa.org) that the PennDOT Driver's License Centers at Dublin (Bucks County), Dunmore (Lackawanna County) and Shillington (Berks County) are all posted as “gun free” facilities, generally with graphic “No Guns” signs. There may be others, also.

If such is the case, under what lawful authority is this being done?

Although Pa. Code, on a very limited basis, does authorize such for certain facilities (e.g., state prisons, casinos and state parks), I have been unable to find any such restrictions on the lawful carrying of firearms for PennDOT facilities.

If it is being done without lawful authority, can we expect the problem to be resolved? There are currently over 800,000 Pennsylvanians licensed to carry firearms, and many do during their travels, even to PennDOT Driver's License Centers. Should they be forced, by an unauthorized sign, to leave their firearm in their vehicle, will PennDOT assume responsibility should the firearm be stolen while its owner is inside conducting business?

If each and every one of you sent out something similar, possibly reworded into your own style of writing, it certainly couldn't hurt.

Oh, cc a copy to the offending PennDOT Driver's License Center.

[lourendo]

The cops said something that I wondered about in the past and there's no clear cut answer on it, I believe.

PennDOT would be leasing the building from a private owner, many times the licensing centers are in malls or business center buildings. So who has the authority to post, would the owner of the property have the right to post their buildings even though a state agency is leasing it? Does pre-emption take precedence in that case?

I believe it's murky at best.

The tenant is effectively the property owner, he takes possession of the unit and effectively owns it until the lease is terminated.

Same goes for an apartment. You are under control and effectively own the property while you rent.

[streaker69]

The tenant is effectively the property owner, he takes possession of the unit and effectively owns it until the lease is terminated.

Same goes for an apartment. You are under control and effectively own the property while you rent.

But the property owner can set conditions on the lease. There have been threads here where a property owner has had a no firearms condition in their lease. If you want to rent you have to abide by their terms.

[Statkowski]

Ahh, if so, is the gunbuster sign on every other establishment in the shopping center?

[Curmudgeon]

Ahh, if so, is the gunbuster sign on every other establishment in the shopping center?

Or... at all entrances to the property?