.22 for tacitcal carbine training

[Fizzle1985]

I've recently been looking into taken some rifle classes. I notice some of them have a recommendation of 500+ rounds to bring. Has anyone ever used a .22 in the same platform of there .223 to offset the cost but still get comparable training? Just seems with the price of .223 the ammo would cost more than the classes and I would like to routinely be involved in some of them. Just wanted your thoughts.

[RXM]

During the peak of the ammo shortage, training groups allowed the use of .22LR. There are some basic fundamentals that you can practice with using a .22LR but optimal training will require the use of the proper cartridge. My suggestion is to buy a drop in .22LR conversion kit such as a CMMG with Black Dog magazines so that you can switch back and forth between the two.

[Mongo85]

During the peak of the ammo shortage, training groups allowed the use of .22LR. There are some basic fundamentals that you can practice with using a .22LR but optimal training will require the use of the proper cartridge. My suggestion is to buy a drop in .22LR conversion kit such as a CMMG with Black Dog magazines so that you can switch back and forth between the two.

I was actually thinking about doing this; buying the conversion kit and all. However, I was able to find a S&W 15-22 rifle for around the same amount (I purchased mine for $329 plus tax and PICS). I've heard of a few issues, but not many, with the conversion kits and decided to go with the dedicated .22. That and it gives me the excuse to buy another gun. The Carbine 1 course I want to take requires a .22; Carbine 2 is 5.56.

BTW... try and find .22 ammo now; .223/5.56 is plentiful now and I would rather use that than rimfire. I personally have lots of .223/5.56, .22 not so much

[iamtommyboy]

At our gun club, the carbine courses (at least the first course, which they title "Carbine 1") requires the use of a .22lr. It is great as an intro to the platform and for practicing the basics (trigger squeeze, sight picture/alignment, maneuvers, etc.). However, for the best prep, one would eventually need to practice with the standard calibers for said weapon (.223, 5.56, etc.) Heck, though .22lr is cheaper, I would say for most, its current lack of availability would force them to use a .223 or 5.56 for these classes.

I would agree that, with the price points as low as they are, buying an M&P 15-22 for this purpose makes much more sense than buying the conversion kits, regardless of how reliable the kits may or may not be. Sure, the M&P is polymer and a little lighter, but great for intro and learning. I have the M&P for cheap range days and for teaching my wife (and soon my kids) about the AR platform and it's use. Lighter, less recoil, etc, etc. When building my first AR, I was going to build a 5.56 upper and a .223 upper, but decided it was almost as price effective to just buy the whole gun in .223.

[RXM]

I was actually thinking about doing this; buying the conversion kit and all. However, I was able to find a S&W 15-22 rifle for around the same amount (I purchased mine for $329 plus tax and PICS). I've heard of a few issues, but not many, with the conversion kits and decided to go with the dedicated .22. That and it gives me the excuse to buy another gun. The Carbine 1 course I want to take requires a .22; Carbine 2 is 5.56.

BTW... try and find .22 ammo now; .223/5.56 is plentiful now and I would rather use that than rimfire. I personally have lots of .223/5.56, .22 not so much

Nothing wrong with buying a dedicated .22LR rifle; I have one myself that sees more range time than my other rifles. That being said, it is my plinking rifle and is not configured like my main AR that I consider to be my "go to" rifle. The conversion kit allows you to practice weapons manipulation with the same platform. In my experience, a .22LR out of a 1/7 twist barrel will have negligible POI shifts at 25 yards. Ultimately, it depends what you're trying to achieve but I'm all for buying more guns if you can financially do so.

[Fizzle1985]

I was thinking of buying a .22 in the same platform so it's very similar. Like I said, I was just looking at a class the was $250 but from the reviews some people used 1000 rounds. I haven't really seen quality ammo for under 375 for 1000 rounds lately. I could buy a .22 and the rounds need for that price so it would pay for itself in one trip. I just wasn't sure if the trainers cared what caliber you bring but I see it depends on the trainer.

[scruff]

At least the S&W has controls that are very similar to a real AR - safety, mag release, charging handle. Seems like it would be a waste to use a .22 in a class unless it was a reasonable facsimile of your AR.

I do some of my practice with an M&P 15-22. As far as my wife is concerned, we bought it "for the kids", but the kids didn't need the nice sling, grip and optic.

[RXM]

At least the S&W has controls that are very similar to a real AR - safety, mag release, charging handle. Seems like it would be a waste to use a .22 in a class unless it was a reasonable facsimile of your AR.

+1 > this is why I suggested the drop in conversion kit.

[Fizzle1985]

That's what I have S & W Mp15 in .223 so I was looking at the .22 and it's almost identical besides the recoil.

[PAallterrain]

I use a mp15 22 for lots of my personal training. Controls are identical to any ar15 other then the charging handle moves less. I use it for going into/out of positions, shooting and moving, ect. Those things it excels at, and at a fraction of the cost.

But...

If you are going to spend the money on quality training you have to factor in ammo. If I am going to drop the cash, I want the best experience possible. First question I ask when I contact someone about training, is "Whats the daily round count". I want to hear around 500 rounds a day. I'm not going to pay a couple hundred dollars a day to train with someone if they won't spend the time to drill me, watch my movements, fix the issues, and keep me on the trigger till I get it right. I don't want "Quality over Quantity" BS. I want both.

All that being said, No way in hell i'd pay for a class, and train with a .22. I want the full experience. A good carbine class is going to push the distance to 200+ yards, no way your doing 100 yards with a .22 at speed.

Want a cheap class training tool? 5.45x39 Mp15. 170$ for 1080 rounds from AIM, first place that showed up on my search. That's close enough to 5.56 that the difference is negligible. Downside? New gun with accessories, and lots of time cleaning after the class when you get home. Its all corrosive. I know a guy who does just that, but he won't pull it out of the safe unless he is shooting at least 500 rounds.