"They call it the R.I.P. round for good reason...."

**CHEMICAL** · January 25th, 2014, 09:41 PM

These look like a prosecutors wet dream. I know....weird right??!

**animalmother85** · January 25th, 2014, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL

These look like a prosecutors wet dream. I know....weird right??!

...and buckshot doesn't?

**CHEMICAL** · January 25th, 2014, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by animalmother85

...and buckshot doesn't?

Buckshot serves another legitimate purpose. It is designed as a hunting round but can be used for defense. We've had this discussion over and over on here and there was a man that they tried to hang out to dry in court just for using 10mm for goodness sake.

**LGO** · January 25th, 2014, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by animalmother85

...and buckshot doesn't?

It's a shotgun and a hunting round. Harder to spin as "he bought uber special deadly ammo designed to kill people" when it's the ammo most people would expect you to have in a shotgun.

**animalmother85** · January 25th, 2014, 09:53 PM

So what about HSTs and Golden Sabers? What about Hornady Critical duty or their Z-Max stuff? None of that is marketed for hunting, it's marketed for putting down bad guys.

Self defense is not a legitimate purpose? It sure seemed that way when they asked why I felt I needed a CCW at the sheriff's office.

I'm willing to bet that there was a lot more at play than him 'just using a 10mm'.

Show me actual cases and their outcomes, not what some guys heard on some forum.

**CHEMICAL** · January 25th, 2014, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by animalmother85

Show me actual cases and their outcomes, not what some guys heard on some forum.

It was an actual case. I read it in Guns and Ammo or one of the like magazines, not on "some forum". It was a normal 10mm hollow point round too not some ammo specifically marketed to "kill people better". All I'm saying is that something like this could extend a trial, that's all. If you can find it look up Harold Fish. He was hiking in Arizona when another hiker's dog charged him. He fired a warning shot and the hiker, who had a violent past and was armed with a screwdriver, also charged him shouting threats to his life. He ended up having to defend himself and was found guilty, greatly because of his choice of caliber. It was eventually reversed but he did spend time in jail after being sentenced to 10 years.

**dkf** · January 25th, 2014, 10:00 PM

In most cases the prosecution is going to try and hang you out to dry regardless. Yeah the bullet design is something else to point the finger at. I use designs that LE uses and the prosecution could make the argument I am acting like I am a rogue cop wannabee using killer bullets the cops use. Can be a lose, lose regardless.

**animalmother85** · January 25th, 2014, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL

It was an actual case. I read it in Guns and Ammo or one of the like magazines, not on "some forum". It was a normal 10mm hollow point round too not some ammo specifically marketed to "kill people better". All I'm saying is that something like this could extend a trial, that's all.

http://defensivehandgun.blogspot.com...fense-and.html

?

**ungawa** · January 25th, 2014, 10:02 PM

Half of those jello shots looked pretty impressive, half looked marginal from a PC standpoint. I'm OK with that. It seems they are sticking with the copper doctrine of having a nice base piece stay together and go deep. I am not dismissing this round. If it has penetration, all the crazy action should be a plus in theory.

I've never seen ballistic gel that looks like that. Who knows what that stuff was.

Independent testing needed. Maybe there is something here, maybe not.

Originally Posted by animalmother85

I'm willing to bet that there was a lot more at play than him 'just using a 10mm'.

Show me actual cases and their outcomes, not what some guys heard on some forum.

Harold Fish - 10mm

http://defensivehandgun.blogspot.com...fense-and.html