MAY or SHALL issue for PA???

[Greywolf]

While PA likes to sell itself as a "shall issue" state. The character clause makes it a de facto "may issue" state. The only real problem is Philly. But "shall issue" to me is an all or nothing endeavor.

^^^ Correct.

The character clause is entirely subjective, which effectively makes PA a "may issue" state regardless of what the legislature or any particular official tries to claim.

[mrnyman]

I know this isn't what the OP asked, but......
As a general feeling IMO Pa is a may issue state.
When an applicant can be denied for nearly any reason after passing pics, and has to reach into their own pocket to appeal that decision, and a judge can decide whether the sheriff's denial had merit, then personal opinion can outweigh whatever right the applicant has to a ltcf. That's may issue IMO.

Fortunately this doesn't happen regularly across the state, not yet.

Then you turn around and sue THE SHERIFF, the sheriff dept. the township/town or whatever entity for violating your rights, for recovery of said legal fees and whatever else your attorney can throw in .

[Solaran_X]

Got a flier of Pennsylvania Firearm Laws from State Representative John R. Gordner. I think I picked it up at the Bloomsburg Fair this past September.

Reading through it allow me to quote to separate sentences:

FIRST
In accordance with C.S. 6109, a sheriff may deny an individual the right to a License to Carry Firearms if there is reason to believe that the character and reputation of the individual are such that they would likely act in a manner dangerous to public safety.

SECOND
If the PICS check is a approved and the subject of good character, the sheriff may issue a License to Carry Firearms.

So, here is my question. In the first instance quoted I understand the use of the term may. In the second use I do not. Isn't it supposed to read, "The sheriff SHALL issue."?

Any elucidation on this please?

As others have said before me...

Pennsylvania is a "Shall Issue" state with the exception of Philadelphia and it's immediate surrounding areas that are illegally "May Issue."

[Remington788]

As others have said before me...

Pennsylvania is a "Shall Issue" state with the exception of Philadelphia and it's immediate surrounding areas that are illegally "May Issue."

What are the immediate surrounding areas?

[Solaran_X]

What are the immediate surrounding areas?

Any county that falls within Philadelphia city limits and thus falls under the
"City of the First Class" rules. And there are probably a few counties outside Philadelphia city limits that would be "May Issue" as well.

I try to avoid the east side of the state as much as possible. Scary place.

[God's Country]

Then you turn around and sue THE SHERIFF, the sheriff dept. the township/town or whatever entity for violating your rights, for recovery of said legal fees and whatever else your attorney can throw in .

How's your law suit going against all the illegal requirements Martin demands in your county?

[Sgt.K]

What are the immediate surrounding areas?

Any county that falls within Philadelphia city limits and thus falls under the
"City of the First Class" rules. And there are probably a few counties outside Philadelphia city limits that would be "May Issue" as well.

I try to avoid the east side of the state as much as possible. Scary place.

City of Philadelphia = Philadelphia County. No more, no less. The surrounding counties are Delaware, Chester, Montgomery, and Bucks. They do NOT fall under 'City of the First Class'.

[CartBone69]

^^^ Correct.

The character clause is entirely subjective, which effectively makes PA a "may issue" state regardless of what the legislature or any particular official tries to claim.

So far the only posts ive seen were people have been denied on the character clause is when they have done some thing stupid in their past, so i don't see how that effectively makes PA May issue. Now if they try and use the character clause one someone with a completely clean history then i could see how you could say that.

[QuackXP]

So far the only posts ive seen were people have been denied on the character clause is when they have done some thing stupid in their past, so i don't see how that effectively makes PA May issue. Now if they try and use the character clause one someone with a completely clean history then i could see how you could say that.

The character clause makes a LTCF a subjective decision. It depends on how the Sheriff feels about the situation vs only relying on specific and defined parameters where the Sheriff has no choice but to issue so long as the specific defined criteria is met.

Once someone opinion gets involved its not a black or white decision and to me that is the criteria for a shall issue status.

This is similar to how I feel about athletic competitions that are judged are not true sports. To much subjective opinion is used to determine a winner.

[Greywolf]

The character clause makes a LTCF a subjective decision. It depends on how the Sheriff feels about the situation vs only relying on specific and defined parameters where the Sheriff has no choice but to issue so long as the specific defined criteria is met.

Once someone opinion gets involved its not a black or white decision and to me that is the criteria for a shall issue status.

I agree, and I respectfully submit that the use of the word "shall" in one clause of the statute does not make PA a shall issue state. Look at what the statute says:

18 Pa CS 6109(e) Issuance of license.--

(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:

(i) An individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety.

Subjective ... subjective ... subjective