Carrying a firearm loaded

[GunLawyer001]

Among the debate fallacies is one called the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

In essence, the person using it dismisses every example that proves him wrong, by simply claiming that the example doesn't count for some reason. For example, he could say "No Scotsman would ever buy a car", then watch as his neighbor Burns drives by; he'd then say "well, no TRUE Scotsman would ever buy a car, so Burns clearly is not a TRUE Scotsman."

Same here. "Careful people never have accidents with guns with chambered rounds." People shoot themselves, or the couch, or the wall, accidentally or negligently, with some frequency, but none of those instances count, because they were "careless" or "had a cheap holster" or "were fiddling with their gun".

The premise seems to be that in the context of guns, unlike the world of cars or bikes or ladders or dartboards or ovens or bathtubs.....one can simply decide to be really careful and thereby avoid any possibility of accidents. Sure, there are accidents, but those are people who decided to be careless, I guess.

Here, this one is a guy carrying with a bad holster or a cheap holster, who decided to be careless that day:
http://forum.pafoa.org/lounge-108/24...septa-bus.html

[libra8]

IMO all you have to do is look to George Zimmerman to answer this question.

His left arm was trapped. He is on his back. It would be nearly impossible for him to chamber a round in this situation.

Then there is this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRG5fj1di9k

If I were to carry, I would carry +1 with the safety on.

[Hokkmike]

Carrying an unloaded gun makes it at best a club and at worst a paper weight.

[Rblakely]

There are risks carrying with and without a round chambered.

I base my decision to carry +1 on real world statistics and odds of being assaulted versus odds of being involved in an accidental shooting.

The link below is to an older post I made showing the statistics I am referring to

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ml#post2521063

The short story is (IMHO) that you increase your odds of an accidental shooting by carrying +1. That risk is, however, outweighed by the fact that you are more than 10x more likely to need your gun for self defense than you are to be involved in an accidental shooting. Looking at that vast difference - when I need my gun to defend myself or my family a second or two may make the difference.

This is a personal choice for me, based on my own research and thoughts. Your decision should be based on YOUR research and thoughts, not mine.

[TwincamJim]

Ok Thanks for everyone's opinion... I meant to say carrying "chambered" not loaded... My bad... I'm sure having read everyone's posts that the answer is yes or no depending on one's views of safety. Is it legal?? In PA you have answered YES.
Therefore I will continue to carry +1 and as always, not looking to use it but in the hopes that I never have to.. And I will do so with the utmost safety in mind.

YES I have my LTCF...

[Bang]

What one may face up to is indulging in speculation. Using stats to arrive at a decision on chambered/not chambered has no relationship to reality.

For probably 98 percent of carriers, the need for use of the carried gun will never happen. So why not leave it home and be entirely safe.

If you're gonna take the small percentages of accidental/careless/negligent/passive-aggressive/whatever kind of discharges and make them a reason to carry with empty chamber, you may as well take the small percentage of needing the gun and leave it home.

It would be interesting to document which percentage of probability is highest...accidental discharge v needing to employ the gun for self protection.

The 1986 Miami-Dade shootout was the impetus of the run on semi-auto carry. One agent with a bullet-mangled support hand was unable to reload his revolver. He reported that he would have been able to insert a magazine in a semi-auto, and off the USA went on the hunt for the magic wand. The wand had to be semi-auto, and bigger than the 9mm bullets that did not stop the main perp even though hit in the heart.

There are too many incidents of injuries during fights or disabled limbs for me to ever carry unchambered. But there we go again...Miami-Dade happened 27 years ago...so the stats/percentages don't support my argument either. Like I said...it's a topic that will never get beyond speculation, because what may happen will always be in the future.

[Rblakely]

It would be interesting to document which percentage of probability is highest...accidental discharge v needing to employ the gun for self protection

I did - see my post a few up. You are more than 10x more likely to need your gun for protection than you are to be involved in an accidental shooting.

[TwincamJim]

I was told by one of my instructors at HACC that there those who have had an accidental discharge and those who will.. This doesn't deter me from carrying chambered...

[normanvin]

I have been told by different people different stories concerning carrying my handgun loaded. Some say to always keep a round in the chamber because you will not have time to rack the slide and chamber a round if you are in a danger situation. Others have told me it is illegal to carry in that manner. I understand that a revolver is always loaded if all cylinders have a bullet in them. What is the law concerning carrying my semi auto with a round in the chamber??

Just as a tip. When someone says this or that is against the law ask for citation of said law.

And generally there is no law saying what is legal.

[Rblakely]

I went through some scenario training a couple years back in Florida. It seemed to me to be as close to reality as one could get (I am by no means an expert).

One of the scenarios involved walking through a parking lot with someone next to you asking you to answer simple math problems as you walked. The idea being this is how most of us go through our lives outside, walking and talking to someone. The math part was designed to make you pay attention to what the person was saying versus just ignoring them and looking around. While you were walking there were a series of people walking the other way toward you (about 10 if I recall) one at a time. We were told we would do this scenario 3 times and once, twice or three times a threat would identify themselves and we would have to respond (replica firearms).

My results?

1st time no threat.
2nd time - took me almost 5 seconds to recognize the threat, draw from concealment and squeeze the trigger
3rd time - gun hung up on my concealment vest, total time was just over 6 seconds

At the range I can draw from concealment at the prompt and place 2 rounds, CM, in less than two seconds. It is MUCH MUCH different in a stress situation. In a real world situation I don't want to have to manipulate a safety or chamber a round. Seconds count.

Again - this is my experience only. Make your own decision.