Reloading 223 for an AR15

[Pkspawn]

This is my first go at reloading for the AR.

The rifle is a Stag Arms 3G

I shot some PMC X-TAC through it, and it grouped nicely at 25 yards, and was OK at 100 yards.. The trigger is not designed for bench rest shooting, and I am still getting used to it..

Attached is the target.. It is a USPSA target with an orange dot in the center.

The at 100 yards, the PMC shot a little high, which I expected since it was hitting a little low at 25 yards (another target was used).

I then used some Wolf/Tula ammo that someone had given me. It pretty much grouped in the shoulder portion of the target.

I figured, it was crap ammo and that is why it fly that far off to the left..

I tried my first reloads today. Using Hornady 55gn FMJBT w/C and AR Comp powder.

I went with 23gn. Well below any published data, I didn't chrono it. But at 25 yards, it grouped a little low left (turn the pictured target counterclockwise, that is how I had it mounted at 25 yards).

I then put the target out to 100 yards. (now the target is displayed correctly). Aimed for the orange dot and I didn't see where the hit went. On the attachment, it went almost into the Tula/Wolf group. So I aimed for a blue tape on the bottom..

Got a 4 round group high and to the left.

I'm wondering.. I've read that the Wolf ammo is under powered, and not a lot of recoil, which is why some people like it.. I believe my rounds to also be under powered, and my belief is there isn't enough velocity/powder/pressure to actually get the comp working, so the bullet isn't stabilizing, and is flying way left like that..

I put in the PMC stuff and it is flying straight..

I guess I'll confirm better tomorrow when I try out some hotter reloads.

Any suggestions, opinions, observations would be appreciated.

[Twoboxer]

Hard to say where to start, so I guess I'll start with there's a lot to learn/understand about the relationship of different combos of components, your rifle, and the POI.

There is nothing wrong with the AR Comp group you fired . . . if it weren't stable (which comes mostly from twist rate/spin), you wouldn't see a group that tight (1.9" x 100yd). The relationship of the 25yd grp to the 100 yd grp tells you nothing really. A 25yd group by itself also tells you next to nothing - it's just too short a rifle distance.

The likelihood that 23gr of AR Comp is the best load for your rifle is small . . . since you simply picked it. The promising thing is it's not that bad either.

At 100 yds different combos of components, let alone different powder charges, are quite likely to produce quite different POIs.

You might want to read about OCW (Optimal Charge Weight) to gain one angle of insight into these issues . . . google "OCW Dan".

Starting at the minimum published charge and OAL is . . . well . . . sorta what it's there for.

You will want a planned, organized approach to finding a good load for your rifle. The available methods will vary, but for this cartridge will normally involve charge weights about 0.3gr apart. The OCW article describes one very useful method . . . but again, there are others. They all involve - in different ways - picking a starting load for a fixed set of other components, and zeroing your rifle for that cartridge. Then firing progressively higher charges, watching the POI change (without rezeroing) and group sizes change in diameter and in pattern.

Read some more before you load and shoot some more is the best advice I can give you.

[bamboomaster]

This is my first go at reloading for the AR.

The rifle is a Stag Arms 3G

I shot some PMC X-TAC through it, and it grouped nicely at 25 yards, and was OK at 100 yards.. The trigger is not designed for bench rest shooting, and I am still getting used to it..

Attached is the target.. It is a USPSA target with an orange dot in the center.

The at 100 yards, the PMC shot a little high, which I expected since it was hitting a little low at 25 yards (another target was used).

I then used some Wolf/Tula ammo that someone had given me. It pretty much grouped in the shoulder portion of the target.

I figured, it was crap ammo and that is why it fly that far off to the left..

I tried my first reloads today. Using Hornady 55gn FMJBT w/C and AR Comp powder.

I went with 23gn. Well below any published data, I didn't chrono it. But at 25 yards, it grouped a little low left (turn the pictured target counterclockwise, that is how I had it mounted at 25 yards).

I then put the target out to 100 yards. (now the target is displayed correctly). Aimed for the orange dot and I didn't see where the hit went. On the attachment, it went almost into the Tula/Wolf group. So I aimed for a blue tape on the bottom..

Got a 4 round group high and to the left.

I'm wondering.. I've read that the Wolf ammo is under powered, and not a lot of recoil, which is why some people like it.. I believe my rounds to also be under powered, and my belief is there isn't enough velocity/powder/pressure to actually get the comp working, so the bullet isn't stabilizing, and is flying way left like that..

I put in the PMC stuff and it is flying straight..

I guess I'll confirm better tomorrow when I try out some hotter reloads.

Any suggestions, opinions, observations would be appreciated.

The reply by Twoboxer was definitely helpful. Kudo's to you!

There are so many things that affect accuracy of a particular round without getting into the shooting skill thing (sight picture, trigger pressure, follow-through).

Barrel twist rate is near the top of the list - is it a 1x9 or a 1x7 you're shooting? 55 grain bullets for the most part need a slower twist rate than 1x7. On the other hand, if you're shooting 77 grain Sierras, a 1x7 twist rate ought to rock the range.

So, what is your barrel twist rate?

Brass prep is not far behind it, for if you do nothing else to your reloads (aka tumble, resize, uniform the outside of the primer pockets, chamfer the neck), you really ought to FIRST debur the inside of the case if you do nothing else. The metal shavings from most manufacturers just drilling the primer pocket are still on the inside of the pocket and deburring them will get rid of the detritus that may affect primer ignition proficiency.

If you decide to debur the inside of the primer pocket, be sure to keep these rounds apart from whatever range pick-ups, etc that you haven't deburred. One quart zip-lock bags work just fine. Be sure to label the bags - I use painter's tape that peels off easily and marks well with a Sharpie.

May I ask what press you use for reloading? Hornady, Dillon, RCBS, etc.?

If I recall correctly, you didn't mention if you used optics, which you probably should for obtaining an accurate sight picture, depending on your level of confidence with or without optics. But it's ALWAYS a good thing to sight in your rifle at 25 yds just to see where it hits on paper. Not to worry, you'll do much better than that. And while it may be difficult for some to accept, the heavier rounds (77 grns) may take 200 yds to stabilize.

This is starting to sound like getting a perfect golf swing - but it many ways, we have the same frustrations!

FWIW, finding the right round is a process, just as it was for finding the right rifle for you. Some retail rounds shoot great right out of the box - others, not so much.

PMC in 55 grn. is not an unreasonable choice, for they fly fine out to 300 yds or so, irrespective of barrel twist.

If you have a hard trigger, possible consider changing it out with a Giselle? They're not inexpensive, but they do indeed help.

I know some folks pay more for modifications/upgrades to their original rifle (in many ways, thanks to all the extended rails, optics requirements, and attachment points) than the cost of the rifle. I'm not at all certain that that's the best way to go - maybe better to buy once and cry once?

Hopefully some of this helps - and don't worry, once you've figured out what works for your rifle, your reloads will make you shine at the range!

Just be sure to take your time at the reloading process and adopt all safe reloading suggestions. Yeah, I know, you've read them a dozen times - but don't ever skip a step!

And if you have a question, just post it on PAFOA. There are members here that just want you to be at the top of the list - especially where safe reloading and range activities may be concerned.

And also your grouping expectations for your rifle and reloading efforts!

Kindest regards,

[Pkspawn]

From the website, twist 1/8 button rifle

Yes I have a scope, 4-16x, but it is a cheap one from walmart.. But works well enough for now.

Currently reloading on a Dillon 550b. Once I find the load I like, it will be moved onto a Dillon 1050. Using RCBS 223/556 small base dies with the T/C seater die.

It has a Geisele 3G trigger.. Which is NOT for precision/benchrest shooting. Everyone that has tried out the trigger gets a big grin and laughs about it.. Then realizes it is an ND waiting to happen.. I was on target and went to prep the trigger and it went bang.. On the attachment above, the 25yard group, that 1 shot that looks like a flier, that was my "opps". I didn't mean to shoot then.

I took a group of reloads out this afternoon. 24gn, 24.4, 24.7 and 25gn. No signs of overpressure, saw a group of 1.5" on the 24, 24.4 and 25gn rounds. 2.2" on the 24.7.

Soon as the weather is better, not raining, I'm going to chrono the rounds and see where it is at.

This is not going to be a precision rifle. so 1.5" group I can live with, but I will eventually see what it is doing at further distances, prob out to 400 yards.

[paplinker22]

It will certainly be challenging -but possible- to shrink group sizes with a milspec trigger. I high recommend upgrading.

You may have already said it but what kind of sights are you running?

Bill