Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 41
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    West Alexander, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
    Posts
    1,600
    Rep Power
    21474849

    Default Re: Can't f find a Sheriff in PA to do handgun transfer

    I just saw your posting below.. disregard what I said since you already took care of it.

    Merry Christmas!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackJack View Post
    The final resolution of this was I sold the gun to his father through an FFL. The young man in question may or may not have been gifted the firearm by his father, I don't know, but that's their business.

    This whole exercise was an interesting foray into how the laws are applied in this area. There is so much to be concerned about in the extra-constitutional limitations placed on firearms use and ownership that this one is only a blip on the screen. But it's important to probe the system from time to time to try to make it work, IMHO.

    BTW, I didn't speak directly to the Sheriff in Adams County, it was one of his deputies and I didn't get the name.

    Thanks for all the information and help on this thread, and Merry Christmas to all.
    Washington County Machine Guns & Tactical Range -- CMP Affiliated Club -- FFL 07 / FFL 10 / FEL 20 / SOT 02 / ITAR
    Largest MG Rental Business on the entire East Coast. M2HB, M9 Flamethrower, M67 Grenades, M240 Bravo, M249 SAW, M1919, RPD, M60, Bowling Ball Mortar.
    Now offering High-Explosive Classes (Open to the Public)

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Effort, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
    Posts
    2,262
    Rep Power
    3681644

    Default Re: Can't f find a Sheriff in PA to do handgun transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by mollymayhem82 View Post
    I have recently learned that any chief law enforcement officer can sign off on NFA stuff. This includes the sheriff, local PD chiefs, and the county DA. Someone here in Lackawanna asked the DA Andy Jarbola to sign off; the DA asked him why he didn't have the sheriff do it. Our sheriff (on his way out now) has always refused. The DA then contacted the sheriff about it, which resulted in a pissing match between the two. In the end, the sheriff signed off on it, because if he didn't, the DA would, which would've resulted in future problems for the sheriff. Don't know what those problems would've been.
    Well you might have recently learned that but I have know it for many years. And as you mentioned, when you inquire with one of the others that can sign off they usually ask the same question and most times they will not go over the Sheriffs head and sign off.

    Then those guys end up setting up a Trust or LLC/Corp for their NFA purchases.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    3,604
    Rep Power
    1246703

    Default Re: Can't f find a Sheriff in PA to do handgun transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by WCGS View Post
    It is against ATF regulations to sell or transfer a handgun to someone under 21, so you won't find any FFL or sheriff in PA to do that transfer.

    Page 5 of the ATF Federal Firearms Licensee Quick Reference and Best
    Practices:

    http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...-p-5300-15.pdf
    That applies to Federal law and FFLs... not Sheriffs or private INTRAstate transfers

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    West Alexander, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
    Posts
    1,600
    Rep Power
    21474849

    Default Re: Can't f find a Sheriff in PA to do handgun transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerJon View Post
    That applies to Federal law and FFLs... not Sheriffs or private INTRAstate transfers
    I have to cordially disagree. In PA, all handgun transfers, including intrastate, must be done either by an FFL or the local CLEO. No handgun transfers can occur when either the seller or buyer are under 21 including private intrastate transfers.

    I wanted to verify my understanding of the PA laws before I posted here, so I just called the PA State Police Firearm Compliance Unit and they verified in PA "it is illegal for an FFL or CLEO to transfer a handgun to anyone under 21, whether or not the transfer started interstate or intrastate. Buyer must going through a PICS background check and PA Form SP4-113 must be completed."

    Long gun transfers require both parties are 18+ and no paperwork is required for private intrastate transfers, however interstate transfers require a 4473.

    Now do the great citizens of PA follow this law? No, it's not generally known that you have to do this for private handgun transfers.
    Washington County Machine Guns & Tactical Range -- CMP Affiliated Club -- FFL 07 / FFL 10 / FEL 20 / SOT 02 / ITAR
    Largest MG Rental Business on the entire East Coast. M2HB, M9 Flamethrower, M67 Grenades, M240 Bravo, M249 SAW, M1919, RPD, M60, Bowling Ball Mortar.
    Now offering High-Explosive Classes (Open to the Public)

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    3,604
    Rep Power
    1246703

    Default Re: Can't f find a Sheriff in PA to do handgun transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by WCGS View Post
    I have to cordially disagree. In PA, all handgun transfers, including intrastate, must be done either by an FFL incorrect
    or the local CLEO. incorrect
    No handgun transfers can occur when either the seller or buyer are under 21 incorrect
    including private intrastate transfers. incorrect
    You are incorrect. INTRAstate transfers can certainly happen WITHOUT an FFL or a Sheriff and the age only needs to be 18+ (technically, they can even be under 18) <--- See http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...earm-by-minor/

    http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...r-of-firearms/

    Family transfer

    (1) spouse;
    (2) parent;
    (3) child;
    (4) grandparent; or
    (5) grandchild.

    http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...ms-prohibited/

    Temp loan

    (b) Exception.--
    (1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:
    (i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).
    Last edited by BimmerJon; December 17th, 2013 at 04:17 PM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northampton County, Pennsylvania
    (Northampton County)
    Posts
    17,641
    Rep Power
    21474870

    Default Re: Can't f find a Sheriff in PA to do handgun transfer

    Bimmer is correct. Almost none of what you posted is true. Rather than defeat it in detail people should just ignore it.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    ..............., Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    5,441
    Rep Power
    18796216

    Default Re: Can't f find a Sheriff in PA to do handgun transfer

    As already stated the minimum age for the purchase of any firearm (longarm or handgun) in Pennsylvania is 18 (ref 18 Pa CS 6302 and 6110.1). The minimum age for the sale of a handgun is 21 and longarm is 18 for a Federal licensee (FFL) (ref 18 USC 922(b)(1)).

    A sheriff is authorized to perform transfers between Pa residents (ref 18 Pa CS 6111(c)) but is not a Federal licensee and hence not under the more stringent age restriction of the Federal law. Hence a sheriff can transfer both longarms and handguns to residents 18+ Y.O.

    18 Pa CS

    § 6302. Sale or lease of weapons and explosives.
    (a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of a misdemeanor of
    the first degree if he sells or causes to be sold or leases to
    any person under 18 years of age any deadly weapon, cartridge,
    gunpowder, or other similar dangerous explosive substance.

    § 6110.1. Possession of firearm by minor.
    (a) Firearm.--Except as provided in subsection (b), a person
    under 18 years of age shall not possess or transport a firearm
    anywhere in this Commonwealth.

    § 6111. Sale or transfer of firearms.
    (c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild
    .
    18 USC 922: Unlawful acts
    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver-
    (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
    IANAL

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    West Alexander, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
    Posts
    1,600
    Rep Power
    21474849

    Default Re: Can't f find a Sheriff in PA to do handgun transfer

    I guess we have to agree to disagree, and that's okay with me. The problem with being an FFL 01/03 is we tend to over read the ATF regulations because we don't want to deal with the ATF during the next inspection, so we tend to always slide over to the caution side of the law, but calls I made today to both my ATF and PA State Police Firearm Compliance Unit (both of which I report too) were very clear on the answer to this question.

    Is their word always correct, hardly, my last call to the ATF was about the interstate travel of a suppressor and the answer I received was wrong, no way around it, but supporting documentation from both the ATF and PS SP were pretty clear to me on this issue.

    I want to thank everyone who responded to my post and for keeping everything friendly. While I don't post often, like 15 times in the past 10 months, I'll pass the answer to intrastate transfers to the other posters here and wish everyone the best.
    Washington County Machine Guns & Tactical Range -- CMP Affiliated Club -- FFL 07 / FFL 10 / FEL 20 / SOT 02 / ITAR
    Largest MG Rental Business on the entire East Coast. M2HB, M9 Flamethrower, M67 Grenades, M240 Bravo, M249 SAW, M1919, RPD, M60, Bowling Ball Mortar.
    Now offering High-Explosive Classes (Open to the Public)

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    3,604
    Rep Power
    1246703

    Default Re: Can't f find a Sheriff in PA to do handgun transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by WCGS View Post
    I guess we have to agree to disagree, and that's okay with me. The problem with being an FFL 01/03 is we tend to over read the ATF regulations because we don't want to deal with the ATF during the next inspection, so we tend to always slide over to the caution side of the law, but calls I made today to both my ATF and PA State Police Firearm Compliance Unit (both of which I report too) were very clear on the answer to this question.

    Is their word always correct, hardly, my last call to the ATF was about the interstate travel of a suppressor and the answer I received was wrong, no way around it, but supporting documentation from both the ATF and PS SP were pretty clear to me on this issue.

    I want to thank everyone who responded to my post and for keeping everything friendly. While I don't post often, like 15 times in the past 10 months, I'll pass the answer to intrastate transfers to the other posters here and wish everyone the best.
    The question you asked and the answer you received was partly correct.
    FFL's are governed by FEDERAL LAW. A transfer following FEDERAL LAW (Interstate or intrastate) dictates the buyer must be 21 yo for firearms, 18 for long guns. That is correct...

    a CLEO that is NOT an FFL is NOT governed by FEDERAL LAW, rather STATE LAW... hence, the buyer need only be 18. The State Police were WRONG on that part...

    Quote Originally Posted by WCGS View Post
    I wanted to verify my understanding of the PA laws before I posted here, so I just called the PA State Police Firearm Compliance Unit and they verified in PA "it is illegal for an FFL or CLEO to transfer a handgun to anyone under 21, whether or not the transfer started interstate or intrastate. Buyer must going through a PICS background check and PA Form SP4-113 must be completed."
    .
    TL_3237, I and others provided you everything you need to validate this in written statute form... What did the state police provide you besides verbal opinion?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northampton County, Pennsylvania
    (Northampton County)
    Posts
    17,641
    Rep Power
    21474870

    Default Re: Can't f find a Sheriff in PA to do handgun transfer

    Well, as an FFL, none of what you said was wrong with respect to your business responsibilities. So yeah, you are definitely meeting your professional obligation in that respect. Which is your highest obligation.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Transfer through Sheriff
    By wwhite72082 in forum Berks
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: March 30th, 2011, 01:49 PM
  2. Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 18th, 2011, 05:58 PM
  3. Northampton County Sheriff transfer
    By shooter357 in forum General
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: July 27th, 2008, 01:26 AM
  4. Sheriff transfer for under 21
    By gnbrotz in forum General
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: July 22nd, 2008, 09:09 PM
  5. Handgun transfer at sheriff's office?
    By Joeg52 in forum General
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: January 29th, 2007, 02:40 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •