ASPs and Collasible Batons: Legal to purchase and carry?

**Fossil4Life** · November 7th, 2013, 01:42 PM

I was at Atlantic Tactical the other day looking at their ASPs (collapsible batons, whatever you want to call them), and I was told that civilians could not purchase them as you have to be LE or military.

However, I was told that if you are a civilian and you want to purchase an ASP, you have to go through a certification/training process. Once completed, you can legally purchase and carry one.

Does anyone have any information as to what training program needs to be taken in order to legally purchase and carry an ASP or collapsible baton?

**HiredGoon** · November 7th, 2013, 01:52 PM

They are not listed as OFFENSIVE WEAPONS under PA's law on such.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...nsive-weapons/

Unless a Collasable Baton, in the collapsed position, could be considered a blackjack????

Whether another law prohibits their possession, I am not sure.

There have been other threads about this in the past...try searching the forum.

**Swarner793** · November 7th, 2013, 01:53 PM

LWTA (Act 235) would be required if you were carrying one for employment purposes.

Many feel that it falls under Section 908 regarding prohibited weapons. However, in 908 there is no exception for being LWTA Certified, so I do not think it actually applies, others do.

Be safe (and just don't get a blackjack).

Scott

**HiredGoon** · November 7th, 2013, 01:56 PM

Although it would seem owning a blackjack as a curio is OK, as mentioned in 908.

Just don't carry it!!!

Originally Posted by Swarner793

LWTA (Act 235) would be required if you were carrying one for employment purposes.

Many feel that it falls under Section 908 regarding prohibited weapons. However, in 908 there is no exception for being LWTA Certified, so I do not think it actually applies, others do.

Be safe (and just don't get a blackjack).

Scott

**ungawa** · November 7th, 2013, 02:07 PM

It's a curio before the zombie apocalypse.

**Hawk** · November 7th, 2013, 02:09 PM

PA "may" consider it an offensive weapon.

"implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose."

**sbmania** · November 7th, 2013, 02:11 PM

Collapsable batons are available over the counter to anyone in many stores and at most gun shows. They would seem to be a great form of less lethal defense in situations where a firearm would not quite be warranted, but where some significant level of perceived and articulable threat exists.

However, I have been told by several people that in PA they might well fall under prohibited weapons as a blackjack type device or as an implement to inflict damage without common lawful purpose. Apparently, the language is not crystal clear on the subject from a legal standpoint.

As such, I have not considered carrying one in order to avoid the potential of a legal problem, especially since my firearm is not prohibited.

Maybe one of our lawyer members could offer a more knowledgable opinion?

**GunLawyer001** · November 7th, 2013, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Swarner793

LWTA (Act 235) would be required if you were carrying one for employment purposes.

Many feel that it falls under Section 908 regarding prohibited weapons. However, in 908 there is no exception for being LWTA Certified, so I do not think it actually applies, others do.

Be safe (and just don't get a blackjack).

Scott

Agreed. And don't get a leather sap, or a Taser or stun gun, because the laws are unclear, and I've handled a prosecution for simple possession of a stun gun.

Originally Posted by HiredGoon

Although it would seem owning a blackjack as a curio is OK, as mentioned in 908.

Just don't carry it!!!

Not so much "OK" as it is an admissible defense that you can try to establish. I did that successfully once in a switchblade prosecution, but we had an excellent and wise judge in a bench trial. It was far from certain to work.

Originally Posted by Hawk

PA "may" consider it an offensive weapon.

"implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose."

Bingo, that's where they'd go, and they'd tie it in with the blackjack being specifically listed, so other non-sporting clubs would also be prohibited. (I once had an road-raging idiot come at me with a baseball bat that he kept in his car, without a baseball glove or baseball balls or any baseball brains that I could discern. We had him prosecuted, which took longer than shooting him with the .45 that I had on me, but was fairly satisfying nonetheless.)