Newbie Question

[SlugORama]

Hi Everyone,

I have an uncle that lives in NC and he has a Ruger P89 that he wants to give me. Do you know if there are any special steps I need to follow as a PA resident? Thanks in advance for any assistance. This will be my first pistol and I'm looking forward to learning some more information.

Thanks,

Slug

[knight0334]

He needs to ship or deliver it to a FFL in PA.

All interstate transfers must go through a FFL, except for bequest(via a will upon death) or intestate succession(family inheritance).

Handguns must go through a FFL in the recipient's home state. Long guns can go through a FFL in any state, so long as the respective state do not regulate it further.

You will need to find a FFL to receive the gun from your uncle. Your FFL may require that the gun be shipped from another FFL, but that isn't a legal requirement. ...although it is often cheaper for FFL to ship to a FFL because FFL's are allowed to ship handguns via USPS. UPS and Fedex personally require overnight shipping of firearms, which is often $50-$75 for the shipping alone. Depending on what the shipping FFL charges, it could be as little as USPS's shipping costs. (I had a local FFL mail a AMT Backup to my dad's FFL in Florida for only $20).

Once your local FFL has the gun, his "transfer fee" will vary. Most hover around $20-$30 per gun. Some can be found cheaper, some like Gandermountain and other big-box stores are around $75. ...so, you and him both need to shop around for respective FFL's to facilitate the transfer.

When you go to pick up the gun you will fill out the federal 4473 form, and a state police SP4-113 form(for "firearms" - handguns, SBS, SBR). The FFL will do a background check on you over the phone with the state police. If you pass, you will make a final signature on the forms, then pay the FFL his transfer fee - you then take the gun home and molest it, squeeze it, pet it, and call it "George".

Oh, be sure to get your LTCF. A LTCF isn't required to own a gun or keep in your home, or even carry it openly on foot. But you will need it to carry it concealed outside of your home, or even transport it in a vehicle.

On a side note - you'll need to be 21yo to do the FFL transfer and to receive a LTCF.

[SlugORama]

Hey Knight,

Thanks so much for the detailed response. I appreciate it. One more question. What if, hypothetically, he already gave me the gun? Would I just bring it to a local FFL and complete the transfer that way? How did you know I plan on calling it George???

[sonnyroofy]

I was under the impression that you could transfer multiple firearms for a single fee, nothing else to add as Knight's post covered everything.

[SlugORama]

Hey Sonny,

Would you happen to know how to proceed if the gun was already in my possession in PA? Hypothetically, of course.

[knight0334]

Hey Sonny,

Would you happen to know how to proceed if the gun was already in my possession in PA? Hypothetically, of course.

If hypothetically were actuality you both committed a federal felony punishable by 10 years in prison and I-dont-know how many thousands of dollars in fines. The gun would also be contraband from there on out and never legal to possess by anyone other than federal agents during its surrender and destruction.

If you have received the firearm without doing the proper interstate transfer it could never legally be made right.. You cannot undo a felony once it is committed.

So, the hypothetical should never become actuality.

[knight0334]

I was under the impression that you could transfer multiple firearms for a single fee, nothing else to add as Knight's post covered everything.

A single form.

But PA's surtax on transfers requires that someone pay for it. The surtax on handguns and longguns is $3, plus $2 for each background check. For a single gun, $5 of the FFL's transfer fee goes to the PSP. If you do multiple guns at the same time only 1 background check call is required - so for guns 2 and great it should only be an additional $3 per gun. However, the FFL's fee may be the same for each gun.

Here is the form that the FFL fills out for the "surcharge's" every 2 weeks. http://www.psp2.state.pa.us/ri/Forms...Remittance.pdf

Example 1:
1. FFL charges $20 to do a single transfer.
2. $5 goes to the PSP, $15 to the FFL.

Exampe 2:
1. FFL charges $20 to do a single transfer, but you want to transfer 3 guns at the same time.
2. FFL charges you $60.
3. $11 should go to the PSP, the FFL keeps $49.

Technically that is how the surcharge thing should work. For all I know the PSP may be requiring the FFL's to submit the additional $2 for each gun when only (1) call is required due to a multi-purchase/transfer.

[BimmerJon]

If hypothetically were actuality you both committed a federal felony punishable by 10 years in prison and I-dont-know how many thousands of dollars in fines. The gun would also be contraband from there on out and never legal to possess by anyone other than federal agents during its surrender and destruction.

If you have received the firearm without doing the proper interstate transfer it could never legally be made right.. You cannot undo a felony once it is committed.

So, the hypothetical should never become actuality.

And OP... whatever you do, don't hypothetically give it BACK to him, because then you'd be committing these crimes AGAIN

I think you now what needs to be done to make this right.

[str8shooter]

One more thing to add that I haven't seen already. It doesn't matter if your uncle lives in NC, or lives with you in your own home here in PA. If he's giving (or selling) you a handgun it has to go through a FFL. The only exceptions that are not the result of a death are transferring handguns to a parent or grandparent, your spouse, or to your child or grandchild with both the recipient and benefactor both being residents of the state.

[Xringshooter]

For all, a few examples:

X has a handgun sent to his FFL to be transferred to him. There is no PA Sales Tax to be paid. He fills out the 4473 and the SP4-113. Undergoes the PICS check. FFL pays PSP $2 for the PICS.

X has 2 handguns sent to his FFL to be transferred to him at the same time. There is no PA Sales Tax to be paid. He fills out on (1) 4473 and (2) SP4-113's (one for each handgun). He undergoes 1 PICS check. The FFL pays the PSP $2 for the check. The FFL also fills out the BATFE form for a multiple purchase of handguns.

X comes in to FFL and purchases a handgun from the FFLs stock. This gun has PA Sales Tax added. He fills out the necessary forms and undergoes the PICS check. The FFL pays the PSP $5 ($2 for the PICS, $3 for the taxable gun surcharge)

X comes in and buys a handgun and rifle from the FFLs stock. These guns have PA Sales Tax added. He fills out all the required forms and undergoes the PICS check. The FFL pays the PSP $8 ($2 for the PICS, $6 for the taxable gun surcharges)



One (1) Approved PICS Check is good until midnight of the day the check was performed. A person could come in at 8AM and get a rifle and then come back at noon and get a handgun and then at 11PM and buy a shotgun and the one PICS covers him (of course he fills out whatever forms needed each time - although the multiple guns could be all listed on the same 4473 since the 4473 is dated but not time stamped).

If the person then comes in again at 12:01 AM (technically the next day) to buy a gun, he would have to undergo the PICS process again, and theoretically the approval number would be good until 11:59:59 PM of that day (I say theoretically because the PICS unit is not open 24/7, I believe it is 7 or 8AM to 10PM)

The $3 surcharge is only collected by the PSP if the gun is liable for PA sales tax. Handguns being transferred FTF by 2 private parties at a FFL are not taxable so the surcharge is not collected. A gun coming in from out of state or from within the state (an internet transaction) is not taxable so not surcharge is collected. The surcharge is only paid by the FFL if it is a gun he has in stock and sells and must collect PA sales tax on the sale.

To the OP, typically hypothetical situations aren't. Asking what is the correct way to do something before it is done is good, it makes it so you can make an informed decision or ask more questions if something is not clear. But the tossing in a hypothetical scenerio after you've gotten a lot of info typically tells people that the hypothetcial scenerio is an actual scenerio. Actualy I think (if I remember some of GunLawyers advice correctly), in your hypothetical, it is your uncle that broke the law by not doing what the law says has to be done. As the receipient, at this point in time I really don't know what to tell you to do, but you should be able to take it to a FFL and have it transferred to yourself. You will fill out the forms just like you were buying it and you would undergo the background check and the gun would get entered into the sales database (that many LEO's use illegally to determine if someone owns a specific gun or not).