Went to replace LTCF... They revoked the old one... And refused to issue a new one!

[snakeman21]

Well, I am pissed. My wallet got lost, and I went to get a replacement LTCF. They told me "no problem, just pay a $3.00 fee, we'll print you a new one, and you'll be all set."

Just like they did last time.

But this time, I filled out the form for a replacement, and they revoked my old one. But then they said, "Sorry. The computer won't let me issue you a new because you already had a replacement done when 911 changed the addresses."

I had my daughter with me (just a baby) so I couldn't spend all day arguing with them. I tried for a while, and was eventually told that I'd have to call the state police headquarters in Harrisburg to get it fixed. I called them. They told me that they have nothing to do with that and that it's the issuing office's responsibility. I said that the issuing office told me that they couldn't do anything about it, and that I'd have to call Harrisburg. She said that is not true, and that they can call if they want, but they will be told the same thing that I was.

So I called the sheriff's office and told them what Harrisburg had said. They said that was not true, and that the only way to get it fixed was to talk to the state police headquarters.

So I told them that the state police headquarters was telling me that they have nothing to do with it and that the sheriff's office had to take care of it, and that their office was telling me the opposite, so obviously one of the two was feeding me false information and I want to know which one. She didn't like this and told me nastily that they aren't lying to anybody, and hung up on me.

So I called back. But when the receptionist picked up and I told her that the lady she transferred me to hung up on me, she said, "That's because you were screaming at her and she didn't have to take that anymore."

This was not true. I was annoyed, but by no means yelling at anyone. I told her that I had been speaking in the same tone of voice I was now, and that she got upset when I suggested that one of the offices was giving bad info (even though I didn't actually accuse their office) and hung up. The receptionist was nicer, but still told me that I'd have to call Harrisburg to get it squared away. Finally, she agreed to have them call Harrisburg themselves because my calling them was getting us nowhere. She said they'd call them and call me back today or tomorrow (laughable!), so I expect to get tired of waiting for them and call them myself on Monday.


Anyone else ever had this issue? I really don't buy their story of the computer only allowing one replacement, mainly because a "replacement" means "revoke your old license and issue a new one with a new number."

[smco]

I am unclear on what your first replacement was for. Was it for change of address or as a result of losing your original?

[snakeman21]

I am unclear on what your first replacement was for. Was it for change of address or as a result of losing your original?

Both. I was planning to get it changed that day anyways, but my wallet was stolen around the same time. Doesn't matter, the form and procedure are the same for change of address or lost license.

[Orlov556]

Trying to make sense of this…

Sheriff’s depts issue the permits, on SP4-129(1-2010?) forms, at the sheriff’s office (every county I have heard of, and they all have their own little rules). The only thing the PSP (In Harrisburg) does is the PICS check, when the county sheriff’s dept calls it in for a renewal.

Did the sheriff’s dept call PICS and delay/deny you? If so, do you have any reason to think why they might have delayed/denied you? If not, did you get a challenge form?

The counties computer system which issues LTCF should be independent from the PICS as that is also usually called in by phone.

So what I am trying to figure out, is it a clerical error on the deputies part (completely possible), or did they run a check and find something that delayed you?

If PICS denied you, then you challenge in writing to them. If the county clerk is incompetent, perhaps others in Monroe county have has problems renewing or recovering an LTCF?

I am interested to know the back story, if there is any.

[snakeman21]

Trying to make sense of this…

Sheriff’s depts issue the permits, on SP4-129(1-2010?) forms, at the sheriff’s office (every county I have heard of, and they all have their own little rules). The only thing the PSP (In Harrisburg) does is the PICS check, when the county sheriff’s dept calls it in for a renewal.

Did the sheriff’s dept call PICS and delay/deny you? If so, do you have any reason to think why they might have delayed/denied you? If not, did you get a challenge form?

The counties computer system which issues LCTF should be independent from the PICS as that is also usually called in by phone.

So what I am trying to figure out, is it a clerical error on the deputies part (completely possible), or did they run a check and find something that delayed you?

If PICS denied you, then you challenge in writing to them. If the county clerk is incompetent, perhaps others in Monroe county have has problems renewing or recovering an LCTF?

I am interested to know the back story, if there is any.

No. This was simply a replacement. No background check. No "denial." Just that the the area they needed to use on the computer to issue a new one was grayed out, wouldn't let them proceed. I told Harrisburg this, and they said that a situation like that has NOTHING to do with them. Which, as far as I know, is correct.

[GunLawyer001]

First, you need to be more careful with your wallet and LTCF. There's no excusing for losing 2 of them, criminals love those things. It parallels the straw purchase problem, where those with clean records obtain regulated items on behalf of those with bad records. Losing one LTCF is happenstance, losing two raises some red flags.

Second, you're correct, the PSP has nothing to do with replacing or issuing LTCF's, beyond the broad issue of designing and disseminating the application form, and doing PICS checks. That "grayed out area" is going to be on the county computer, same as if the Sheriff's camera were broken. PICS can't do squat for you if the county Sheriff fails to do his job. The Court of Common Pleas, on the other hand, can order the Sheriff to do his job.

The down side is that a court might very well agree if the Sheriff says that losing 2 of these is a sign of questionable character or reputation. So tread lightly. Be polite, send letters, think about hiring legal counsel to send a better letter if needed.

FWIW, losing the physical license is not the same as being unlicensed, until they revoked the old one. That revocation requires a certified letter from the Sheriff to your listed address (per the statute), in-person notification is not enough; and then you can file an appeal in CCP. It might be cheaper to get your lawyer involved now, before the revocation letter is sent.

[ATBackpackin]

Sounds like a good opportunity for a 3-way call.

Hold on I am confused. Did they actually revoke your license or just not issue you a replacement?

[ungawa]

First, you need to be more careful with your wallet and LTCF. There's no excusing for losing 2 of them, criminals love those things.

That seems silly. Some states don't even require them, I wonder how on earth they survive with all the criminals?

If anybody wants my LTCF, it's in my car next to my driver's license. Because that's what I use both of them for.

I didn't make these things magical sensitive items, and couldn't care less.

[BimmerJon]

There is NO WAY to reissue a LTCF (prior to expiration) unless they REVOKE you in the system.

This is why I NEVER recommend you update your license info when moving.
They will revoke you.

You are now unlicensed (do not carry). The Sheriff must send you a certified letter stating the reason (hopefully "updating address")

From now on, for the rest of your life, if asked "have you have been revoked?" You must answer yes. Keep hold of that letter to explain things

they shouldn't charge you 3 dollars... they should charge you 20.

"Sorry. The computer won't let me issue you a new because you already had a replacement done when 911 changed the addresses."

You're being lied to.... I can apply for a LTCF and be issued a new one every month if I wanted... They realized their error and are lying to you

[snakeman21]

There is NO WAY to reissue a LTCF (prior to expiration) unless they REVOKE you in the system.

This is why I NEVER recommend you update your license info when moving.
They will revoke you.

You are now unlicensed (do not carry). The Sheriff must send you a certified letter stating the reason (hopefully "updating address")

From now on, for the rest of your life, if asked "have you have been revoked?" You must answer yes. Keep hold of that letter to explain things

I am well aware. I had to have the first one revoked, too... But I never got a letter about it. I walked in, they revoked the old one, and handed me a new one. Never heard anything else about it. I'm expecting the same thing to happen this time... Except it looks like they won't be replacing my license.

I didn't today, because of circumstances, but what if I'd been carrying? Gone in, checked firearm, and proceeded? Then they revoke my license and proceed to tell me they that oops, sorry, we can't issue a new one. Now you're screwed.

Then what would have happened?