Question on lawfully owning a found gun

[Dirk]

Any direction to point me in would be great.

[GunLawyer001]

Your first problem is that he gave it to you. All transfers of handguns between unrelated friends have to go through an FFL (or Sheriff, if yours plays ball).

[streaker69]

1) There is no registration in PA.

2) The person that gave you the handgun may have already committed a crime by giving it to you without a transfer through an FFL.

3) If they know who the home was purchased from, they should probably have contacted them to find out if they left it behind.

I wouldn't want to have a firearm that may have been used in a crime either, but I certainly wouldn't be passing it around like it was an old clock radio either.

[knight0334]

Unless the gun, or all personal property, left behind part of the sales clause - there stands a chance that the new home owner doesn't own it to give it away.

Property must be knowingly abandoned for someone else to claim it without the hassles of lean.

Lost, forgotten, mislaid properties are not subject to claim without the typical hassles of a lean or public claim(surrender to authorities, place add in newpapers for ** number of days, etc, etc).

I cant remember PA's full statutes or case law on the matter, and municipalities may have other rules on it too. The common law thing to do was to surrender it to the authority, then the person claiming the property had to advertise the discovery and call forth the owners to receive it. Should no-one claim it after so many days it was rightfully yours.

18 Pa.C.S.A. § 3924

Purdon's Pennsylvania Statutes and Consolidated Statutes Currentness
Title 18 Pa.C.S.A. Crimes and Offenses (Refs & Annos)
Part II. Definition of Specific Offenses
Article C. Offenses Against Property
Full text of all sections at this level Chapter 39. Theft and Related Offenses (Refs & Annos)
Full text of all sections at this level Subchapter B. Definition of Offenses (Refs & Annos)
Current selection§ 3924. Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake

A person who comes into control of property of another that he knows to have been lost, mislaid, or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient is guilty of theft if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, he fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to a person entitled to have it.

[Dirk]

I'm just not sure who to go to at this point.

[Pkspawn]

Basically you would goto an FFL/gunshop with your friend.. And he would transfer it to you.

The issue is, is he really the legal owner of the gun right now.

When I've seen transfer done at shops, the person claiming to be the owner didn't have to produce anything special other than ID. I know when I gave a firearm to my cousin. I just filled out some paperwork, and then my cousin filled out paper work and they ran the PIC check against him. Basically once I finished filling out my part, I walked away and wasn't needed to complete the transaction.

Contact your FFL and see what they say, they might be better to direct you, since I am sure they wouldn't want to be part of a bad transfer.

If you are in this loop of not being the legal owner, can't make a claim to it, and can't return it to the original owners.. Then unfortunately/fortunately those anonymous gun buy backs would be a route to take to "dispose" of the firearm.. The Legality of that? I do not know..

[QuackXP]

The house was bought in 2007 and the gun was found in the back of a high closet shelf in 2011. The previous owner of the house had since died and the current owner's wife had been asking him to get rid of it. If I cannot legally own the gun I'll gladly turn it in to be disposed of, but if there is a way to cleanly register it to me I would like to do so.

I also went back to my friend to ask for additional info and they have a brother who is a police officer in Bristol Township. They ran the gun and it does not have any crimes registered to it (so that is at least something). And the gun wasn't listed as registered to anyone.

I'm just not sure who to go to at this point. A gun shop for some kind of pseudo transfer, right to the sheriff's office, or some paperwork/form to fill out.

The homeowner definatly has to transfer the handgun to you. Any FFL can do this. if you pay more than $25 for this service in most areas your getting ripped off.

The real question is do the homeowners actually own the firearm to transfer to you. You say the previous homeowner has died. Do the new homeowner have an obligation to give it back to the estate?

[GunLawyer001]

OK, here's the quick and dirty reality:

That gun isn't worth much. So it's a de minimus violation of the laws on found property, same as if you found an old drill in the garage, or a Victrola in the attic joists, or a $20 bill on the street.

The laws on transfers primarily apply to the person giving up the gun, and only secondarily apply to the recipient, under "conspiracy" laws, or via forfeiture of contraband.

You can in fact get the gun "registered" to you, to the extent we have a govt record of possession, through the Record of Sale form. You can do it by yourself, which is good, because otherwise you'd have to commit a second unlawful transfer BACK to your friend so he could go through the motions of transferring it to you. Find a cooperating gun shop, put it on consignment for $1000, the FFL will put it in his A&D book. Then go take it back the next day or week (you've already explained this to him, so he's not pissed off, and you're paying for the service.) To sign it out to you, you get a PICS check and fill out a Record of Sale form, which is sent to the PSP, who then log it in as being "in your name". Cops who run the serial number will find it linked to you now.

If it's been reported stolen, that may come to the attention of LEO's, but the fact that you've voluntarily "registered" it to yourself would make clear the fact that you didn't know that.

Legally speaking, it's been contraband as soon as your buddy made the unlawful transfer to you. But you can comply with the law as much as possible by running it through the system.

[MikeB0]

Legally speaking, it's been contraband as soon as your buddy made the unlawful transfer to you. But you can comply with the law as much as possible by running it through the system.

If the OP has a LTCF can this be a defense?

18 Pa.C.S. § 6115: Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited

(a) Offense defined.--No person shall make any loan secured by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to the provisions of this subchapter.
(b) Exception.--
(1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:
(i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).

[GunLawyer001]

If the OP has a LTCF can this be a defense?

He didn't describe it as a loan, he described it as a transfer of ownership. That means that for the LTCF to work as a defense, they'd have to perjure themselves.