Flintlock

[kevikens]

I recently went to Dixons to look at some muzzle loaders, either a Pa. Long Rifle or an Indian trade gun. I have two concerns, one that the gun is light and that is easily checked and the second is that it be a good sparker. Gun shop owners are not thrilled with customers dropping the hammer to check for a good spark. Anyway, I found out that Pedersoli makes a lightweight (7 lbs?) simple rifle Pa. style, no patch box arm for about $600. Dixon's had two, one used, one new, both at about the same price. Does anyone here know what kind of sparkers these are. I have a Pedersoli and a Japanese (Miroku) Brown Bess and the Miroku is much the better spark producer. I don't much mind missing a shot at a reenactment, but a missed deer is something else. Thanks for any help.

[mikal90]

Dixons sells better quality flints. I think in my own opinion that English flints are best. I'm in the habit of checking to make sure my flint is lined up with the frisson while in my stand. If its crooked it will make a smaller spark. I like guns with a medium size flint, not the small ones like the deerstalkers use. I have a Lyman Great Plains rifle. It is heavy and also has Double triggers. I don't recommend double triggers for hunting. They take to long to use during deer drives or on running targets. My next one will be a Lyman Trade rifle or one of the Kentucky styles, single trigger. Dixon also sells and installs fiber optic sights for them. It makes a big difference compared to buck horn types. I use 3f powder in the bore and 4f for the pan. Smaller grain powder is easier to flash. The firearms you mentioned are both good choices. I hope this helps.

[DavidTM]

The spark that you look for is directly associated with the lock maker. Of course, flints do make a difference, but like my 30 year old T\C that needs a frizzen replaced at least twice a hunting season, the cheap T\C outer thin case harding tells you alot.

OTOH, two years ago I built a 50 caliber flint pistol and used a Chambers Queen Ann lock. I've probably fired over 100 rounds from the pistol and the frizzen is sparking as good now as it did on day one.

Dave

[PA Rifleman]

I recently went to Dixons to look at some muzzle loaders, either a Pa. Long Rifle or an Indian trade gun. I have two concerns, one that the gun is light and that is easily checked and the second is that it be a good sparker. ...

Maintaining spark is a process that all flint-smashers require irrespective of how they start out.

The ability to generate a spark has a lot to do with the flint and the hardness of the frizzen (called "hammer" in the days of flintlocks). Do a little research on:

• Flint knapping-a sharp flint will shave better than a dull one, making more sparks, and hotter too.
• Frizzen hardening-this is done by a process called case hardening. Summary: the frizzen is heated and maintained in a high carbon environment for a length of time. The carbon migrates into the steel, and the frizzen is quenched in oil or water. This traps the carbon in the steel, making it beyond file-hard.

A selection of flint knapping links:

• http://www.flintknapping.com/
• http://www.uiowa.edu/~osa/learn/ancient/flint.htm
• http://www.flintknappingtools.com/
• http://flintknappers.com/
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyuzh1uaSf4
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzNIa-U5Nc

Case hardening:
In the days of yore, this was done by placing the frizzen in a sealed container with scraps of leather, horn & other scraps, and placed in a bed of coals. The leather scraps charred but couldn't burn due to a lack of oxygen, so carbon monoxide was the result. With the steel somewhere above 1200°F, the carbon leeched into the steel surface. When dumped in water, the carbon's trapped in the steel, hardening it.

Today we have commercial case hardening products like "Kasenit" and other surface hardening compounds (details). Modern products work very well, and produce acceptable results in less time.

You'll get your front-stuffin' smokepole sparking like a downed power line.

Also have a look at:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/

[kevikens]

Thanks; from many years of Revolutionary War reenactment black powder hunting I understand the importance of the frizzen and good flints. I actually prefer French amber flints, when I can get them. I did once own, briefly, a TC Hawken flint lock and it was, shall we say, unreliable. What I need to know about is the Pedersoli's reliability as a good producer of sparks. The Miroku Japanese Brown Bess I have is quite good. If I pull the trigger on that gun 1000 times it will fire 999 times. I want a rifle that will be just as likely to go off and I want to know if the Pedersoli's, like the one on sale right now at Cabelas, is at least near that in terms of setting off the charge. Thanks for the Muzzle loader forum. I have been reading that but most writers are talking about its accuracy or handling or appearance. "Sparkability", if there is such a word, on the Pedersoli is what I need to know about.

[PA Rifleman]

...What I need to know about is the Pedersoli's reliability as a good producer of sparks. The Miroku Japanese Brown Bess I have is quite good. ...

I have one data point on Pedersoli flints:

I have a Pedersoli 2nd land pattern musket from the early 80s. The "sparkability" and ability to light off powder approached a modern firearm until about 5-10 years ago, when the frizzen finally wore down. I re-hardened it (for the first time), and we were back in business. I actually caught that transition on film a few years ago.

This musket had passed through the hands of **many** (as in, hundreds if not thousands) of school kids in a Pennsylvania gunmaking seminar I taught. So, it certainly wasn't a wallhanger or wallflower by any stretch.

To balance this, muskets were made to be reliable. The frizzen's bigger and so is the flint.

A few photos:

1766 Musket (top), 2nd land pattern (bottom), both Pedersoli.


Closeup of the frizzen & pan. Callouts were added since this image was part of an educational article.

[heatheroo]

If you are still in the market, you ought to head back to Dixon's this weekend for the gunmakers fair. You can get all the info. you would ever want. its free except for a couple $ to park.