'Sweeping' with a Shoulder Holster

[Sgt.K]

OK, here goes. I did a search and found some general information, but I am looking for opinion on a very specific point. Mrs.K and I occasionally drive long distances, e.g. Pittsburgh, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Los Angeles, etc. My question does NOT involve the different laws relating to carry and/or transportation in and/or through the various states - there are plenty of options to look those up. I’m just looking for thoughts about ‘rules’.

I have found that wearing my 1911 IWB at 3:30 is neither as comfortable nor as accessible in the car as it is otherwise. I do not have - nor will I be getting - another gun, so that’s not an option here. After some research, and knowing that it will make for easier access in the car, I bought a Miami Classic II that I have now gotten adjusted as far as ‘comfortable’, and am closing in on ‘really comfortable’, but it takes time. I have worn it around the house some, working on the adjustments while getting used to the thumb break and how the holster interacts with the thumb safety (ok so far). The Miami Classic - which is an open muzzle design - holds the gun close to horizontal (plus or minus a little bit depending on how I have it adjusted), and it completely covers the trigger and trigger guard. To keep the weight as close as possible to real carry I am wearing it empty chamber with snap caps in a training magazine (red bumper on the mag, whole family knows they are training only) in the gun, and two full mags in the ammo carrier for balance.

Mrs.K has asked me not to wear the rig around the house, citing the rules of handgun safety. Specifically “all guns are always loaded” and “never point at something you’re not going to shoot”. I believe that any proper holster assumes that the gun it is carrying is loaded, which is why the trigger is covered - i.e. “keep the booger hook off the bang switch”. Also, regardless of which holster one uses, the muzzle is going to sweep someone or something at sometime when the wearer turns, bends or leans a certain way, e.g. the person on the floor below you with a straight drop or ankle holster, the person behind you on the escalator with an FBI cant or cross-draw, the person next to you with a steeply canted SOB, the person next to you and/or (GASP!) your boob with a bra holster, your thigh and/or (HORRORS!) your junk with appendix carry.

*MY* opinion(s):
* When cleaning, practicing (range or dry fire) or otherwise manipulating the gun it is critical to maintain awareness of the basic rules and get them ingrained into your subconscious.
* Once the gun is properly holstered and no longer being manipulated, there is no significant difference in the risk of AD/ND from one holster to another.
* I understand that staring down the barrel of a .45 hanging under someone’s arm can have a *tad* more psychological impact than seeing the grips of a PPKs in a pancake. That is a topic for another thread.
* I am aware that different holsters have different draw properties, e.g. access time, gun’s accessibility to the bad guy, physical contortions necessary, who or what gets swept, etc. That is also a topic for another thread.

So, I am looking for real world opinions about the relative safety of *carrying* in a shoulder holster compared to other varieties. Is Mrs.K being overly… wife like? Any published studies would be great.

Be gentle with me...

[USMC3531]

IMHO a holstered gun is the same as a rifle in a case/safe. Do you put your safe in the attic instead of the basement so the muzzles dont point at anybody? or a gun in a case do you have the same muzzle awareness as if it was uncased in your hand? The only time I'd worryabout people around is when drawing the gun. maybe you could get a metal "bullet deflector" that attaches to the holster so nobody is looking straight down the barrel.

[smco]

Subscribing because I have been wondering the same thing. I always think about those who sit behind me in a vehicle, since it is usually someone I like or am related to. I have seen shoulder rigs that have the gun pointing down as well but I am not a fan of trying to draw from the ones I have tried.

[rockstrongo]

I don't like shoulder holsters for the exact reason your wife indicated. you are effectively sweeping everyone behind you all the time. I fully understand that it is holstered, and *shouldn't* go bang, but I think holsters that keep the muzzle oriented downward is a better solution. If you were riding in the backseat of the car, and the guy in the front seat had a firearm in a loaded shoulder holster, would you feel 100% comfortable for the ride? I wouldn't.

That said, I can see the appeal of the shoulder holster for you, given that it would be more comfortable for a long ride.

[sprrdhawk44]

I'd say you've put a lot of thought into it, and I agree with just about all that you've said. The biggest concern is reholstering. A lot of discharges occur when reholstering the gun, and while it's never good when a gun is negligently fired while reholstering into a strong side holster, there's less chance of that round hitting someone as opposed to a ND with a shoulder holster. Just be aware of what you're doing, as with ALL things involving firearms, and you'll be okay.

[Sgt.K]

The biggest concern is reholstering.

If I'm wearing a shoulder rig, the max number of times it goes in the holster per day is gonna be two - once in the morning (if I didn't hang it by the bed for quick access) and once after putting down the bad guy(s), at which point I expect she'll be empty. The only time it will get holstered repeatedly is while training with dummy rounds.

[Sgt.K]

I don't like shoulder holsters for the exact reason your wife indicated. you are effectively sweeping everyone behind you all the time.

*IMO*, you're only 'sweeping' if you're holding/handling it, not if it's holstered/cased.

If you were riding in the backseat of the car, and the guy in the front seat had a firearm in a loaded shoulder holster, would you feel 100% comfortable for the ride?

If you were working on the first floor of the police department directly under the squad bay, and every cop above you had a firearm in a loaded hip holster, would you feel 100% comfortable for the shift? Same same.

My 2¢

[marinville]

All I have to add is this: I have been carrying a loaded and chambered Glock pistol on my person every day for the past four years. I only carry it in quality holsters which are sturdy and entirely cover the trigger guard. I am completely comfortable with it. I understand how it functions mechanically and I understand the operation of its safety mechanisms. I believe the chances of my loaded and chambered carry firearm going bang on its own while holstered are highly unlikely, and yet I still do not like to lie down (relaxing on a couch, for example) while wearing it (in a typical strong side holster), because I do not feel comfortable with my children walking past and crossing the muzzle.

I guess what I am saying is, although it may be illogical, I understand your wife's point of view.

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[customloaded]

OK, here goes. I did a search and found some general information, but I am looking for opinion on a very specific point. Mrs.K and I occasionally drive long distances, e.g. Pittsburgh, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Los Angeles, etc. My question does NOT involve the different laws relating to carry and/or transportation in and/or through the various states - there are plenty of options to look those up. I’m just looking for thoughts about ‘rules’.

I have found that wearing my 1911 IWB at 3:30 is neither as comfortable nor as accessible in the car as it is otherwise. I do not have - nor will I be getting - another gun, so that’s not an option here. After some research, and knowing that it will make for easier access in the car, I bought a Miami Classic II that I have now gotten adjusted as far as ‘comfortable’, and am closing in on ‘really comfortable’, but it takes time. I have worn it around the house some, working on the adjustments while getting used to the thumb break and how the holster interacts with the thumb safety (ok so far). The Miami Classic - which is an open muzzle design - holds the gun close to horizontal (plus or minus a little bit depending on how I have it adjusted), and it completely covers the trigger and trigger guard. To keep the weight as close as possible to real carry I am wearing it empty chamber with snap caps in a training magazine (red bumper on the mag, whole family knows they are training only) in the gun, and two full mags in the ammo carrier for balance.

Mrs.K has asked me not to wear the rig around the house, citing the rules of handgun safety. Specifically “all guns are always loaded” and “never point at something you’re not going to shoot”. I believe that any proper holster assumes that the gun it is carrying is loaded, which is why the trigger is covered - i.e. “keep the booger hook off the bang switch”. Also, regardless of which holster one uses, the muzzle is going to sweep someone or something at sometime when the wearer turns, bends or leans a certain way, e.g. the person on the floor below you with a straight drop or ankle holster, the person behind you on the escalator with an FBI cant or cross-draw, the person next to you with a steeply canted SOB, the person next to you and/or (GASP!) your boob with a bra holster, your thigh and/or (HORRORS!) your junk with appendix carry.

*MY* opinion(s):
* When cleaning, practicing (range or dry fire) or otherwise manipulating the gun it is critical to maintain awareness of the basic rules and get them ingrained into your subconscious.
* Once the gun is properly holstered and no longer being manipulated, there is no significant difference in the risk of AD/ND from one holster to another.
* I understand that staring down the barrel of a .45 hanging under someone’s arm can have a *tad* more psychological impact than seeing the grips of a PPKs in a pancake. That is a topic for another thread.
* I am aware that different holsters have different draw properties, e.g. access time, gun’s accessibility to the bad guy, physical contortions necessary, who or what gets swept, etc. That is also a topic for another thread.

So, I am looking for real world opinions about the relative safety of *carrying* in a shoulder holster compared to other varieties. Is Mrs.K being overly… wife like? Any published studies would be great.

Be gentle with me...

SGT K,

I know you served in the Military but I don't know if you have since 9/11. I say that because this issue has been very "BIG" issue in the Army during Deployments. Thousands of Soldiers have bought after market holsters for carrying their issued M-9, specifically those that sit on their ass and never leave a base/fob. They love shoulder holsters. As such rear echelon support pukes had a huge uproar of "Your muzzle swept me" blah blah blah, oh the horror of an empty gun sweeping another "FOBBIT!"

I have had two shoulder rigs when I was younger. Both had the barrel points directly toward the ground, ie my hip, thigh, ankle, foot. Never bothered me but I didn't use them often but they were acceptable for the manner in which I was carrying.

Holsters are like tools in a tool box. One screw driver doesn't meet the requirements for every screw. You have several different kind to include flat head, Phillips head, hex, and star. Same with Holsters for not every carry situation is the same and the more tools you have, the more comfortable and flexible one would be with how they carry.

I have seriously considered a high quality shoulder rig "Miami Classic" from Galco but as of yet, I haven't purchased.

I say wear it and boohoo to those who are too easily offended. A 1911, the last time I checked, has three safety's, two mechanical and one human booger hook.

Oh yeah, one more deal, a few years ago a US Deputy Marshal survived an attempted prisoner hi-jacking specifically because he wore a shoulder rig. He was attacked from behind by the prisoner he was escorting gang members, who had firearms and did fire upon the two marshals. The male Marshal, varied his carry method. During the gang's recon of marshal protocol for prisoner transport, most marshals were their duty weapons on their belt, paddle or pancake style. When the gang members attacked from behind, they attempted to take his weapon but was not on his belt. This caused confusion and screwed up their plan to take the Marshal's weapons because they couldn't find it. The marshal was able to use this confusion to his advantage and in a split second, brought his raised firing hand/arm down rom a raised position to his shoulder holster, pull the weapon out far enough to fire, fire to his rear under his arm, striking and killing the suspect that was behind him. He then cleared his weapon the rest of the way, engaged the other gang members, hitting all them, and prevented the escape of the prisoner he was escorting plus probably saved his own life and that of his partner.

CL

[30Glock]

Heritage Guild in Easton will not allow OC In a shoulder rig in the store. I was there recently OCing with a Miami Classic rig, the manager approached to advise that this was against store policy, I asked why and he stated I was sweeping customers with my Glock.

I find this manager to be very knowledgeable in past encounters so I had to ask, are you saying my glock can go off without anyone touching it, his reply surprised me, he stated hey you never know.